Question:
Saleen S7 Specifications Price (MSRP): $430,000 Body Type: 2-door coupe Layout: mid-engine, RWD Engine: 575-hp, 568 lb-ft torque, 7.0-L, 16-valve, V8 Transmission: 6-spd manual transaxle Acceleration (0 – 60 mph): 2.9 seconds Top Speed (estimated): 200 mph Brakes (front/rear): disc/disc Curb Weight: 2,750 lbs Cargo Volume (f/r): 2.65 / 2.82 cu ft Fuel Economy (city/hwy): N/A Warranty (mo/km): 24/Unlimited comprehensive Direct Competitors: Aston Martin Vanquish, Dodge Viper SRT-10, Ferrari 360 Modena / 575M, Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG / McLaren SLR, Porsche GT2 Web Site: www.saleen.com
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> Saleen S7 Specifications > Price (MSRP): $430,000
Looks like a Ford Mustang to me.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Saleen S7 Specifications > Price (MSRP): $430,000 > Body Type: 2-door coupe > Layout: mid-engine, RWD > Engine: 575-hp, 568 lb-ft torque, 7.0-L, 16-valve, V8 > Transmission: 6-spd manual transaxle > Acceleration (0 – 60 mph): 2.9 seconds > Top Speed (estimated): 200 mph > Brakes (front/rear): disc/disc > Curb Weight: 2,750 lbs > Cargo Volume (f/r): 2.65 / 2.82 cu ft > Fuel Economy (city/hwy): N/A > Warranty (mo/km): 24/Unlimited comprehensive > Direct Competitors: Aston Martin Vanquish, Dodge Viper SRT-10, Ferrari > 360 Modena / 575M, Mercedes-Benz SL55 AMG / McLaren SLR, Porsche GT2 > Web Site: www.saleen.com
I know that car. I’d take a McClaren F1 or carbon fiber Koenigsegg over that one. http://www.koenigsegg.com/ Heck, I’d be satisfied with the "cheap" Ford GT! ($150k, although they often sell over "sticker"): http://www.fordvehicles.com/fordgt/home.asp But the subject of this thread is an electric car. That’s what makes it unusual.
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Question:
> Verbatim quotes from when Clinton was committing troops to Bosnia: > "You can support the troops but not the president." > —Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s
going to happen is they’re > going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years." > —Joe Scarborough (R-FL) > "Explain to the mothers and fathers of American
servicemen that may come > home in body bags why their son or daughter have
to give up their life?" > —Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99 > "[The] President . . . is once again releasing
American military might on a > foreign country with an ill-defined objective
and no exit strategy. He has > yet to tell the Congress how much this operation
will cost. And he has not > informed our nation’s armed forces about how
long they will be away from > home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy." > —Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA) > "American foreign policy is now one huge big
mystery. Simply put, the > administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign > policy." > —Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "If we are going to commit American troops, we
must be certain the y have a > clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." > —Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush > "I had doubts about the bombing campaign from
the beginning . . . I didn’t > think we had done enough in the diplomatic area." > —Senator Trent Lott (R-MS) > "I cannot support a failed foreign policy.
History teaches us that it is > often easier to make war than peace. This
administration is just learning > that lesson right now. The President began this
mission with very vague > objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these > questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of > engagement. There is no timetable. There is no
legitimate definition of > victory. There is no contingency plan for
mission creep. There is no > clear funding program. There is no agenda to
bolster our over-extended > military. There is no explanation defining what
vital national interests > are at stake. There was no strategic plan for
war when the President > started this thing, and there still is no plan today" > -Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important
for the President to > explain to us what the exit strategy is." > -Governor George W Bush (R-TX)
Excellent compilation! Hello…hello… any of you retardicons gonna say *anything* about these? They’re fake, right? Misquotes, right? Been doctored up, right? Totally imaginary, right? Well?
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Imagine how these kids must feel daily. THAT heat and those motherhumping flak jackets on top. THEN- A 27 *TON* APC is blown up killing 8…by something improvised….that’s almost 11 times the wt. of a Jeep Grand Cherokee. PTSD? These kids are going to return wearing diapers. What in fuck’s name did that stupid D.C. asshole from Texas get the United States into?! mvm – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Verbatim quotes from when Clinton was committing troops to Bosnia: > "You can support the troops but not the president." > —Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "Well, I just think it’s a bad idea. What’s going to happen is they’re > going to be over there for 10, 15, maybe 20 years." > —Joe Scarborough (R-FL) > "Explain to the mothers and fathers of American servicemen that may come > home in body bags why their son or daughter have to give up their life?" > —Sean Hannity, Fox News, 4/6/99 > "[The] President . . . is once again releasing American military might on a > foreign country with an ill-defined objective and no exit strategy. He has > yet to tell the Congress how much this operation will cost. And he has not > informed our nation’s armed forces about how long they will be away from > home. These strikes do not make for a sound foreign policy." > —Sen Rick Santorum (R-PA) > "American foreign policy is now one huge big mystery. Simply put, the > administration is trying to lead the world with a feel-good foreign > policy." > —Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "If we are going to commit American troops, we must be certain the y have a > clear mission, an achievable goal and an exit strategy." > —Karen Hughes, speaking on behalf of George W Bush > "I had doubts about the bombing campaign from the beginning . . . I didn’t > think we had done enough in the diplomatic area." > —Senator Trent Lott (R-MS) > "I cannot support a failed foreign policy. History teaches us that it is > often easier to make war than peace. This administration is just learning > that lesson right now. The President began this mission with very vague > objectives and lots of unanswered questions. A month later, these > questions are still unanswered. There are no clarified rules of > engagement. There is no timetable. There is no legitimate definition of > victory. There is no contingency plan for mission creep. There is no > clear funding program. There is no agenda to bolster our over-extended > military. There is no explanation defining what vital national interests > are at stake. There was no strategic plan for war when the President > started this thing, and there still is no plan today" > -Rep Tom Delay (R-TX) > "Victory means exit strategy, and it’s important for the President to > explain to us what the exit strategy is." > -Governor George W Bush (R-TX)
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> Verbatim quotes from when Clinton was committing troops to Bosnia:
There were a few of them stepping on their cranks. See ya! John
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Question:
>> Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for Cuban > visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned.
> And you have demonstrated your deep concern for others with your > sensitivity, empathy, and class for months. I’m attaching the appropriate > weight to your advice.
I guess you missed the part where I said "Except you, Skippie, ignore my advice. Go to Cuba ASAP. It will be a wonderful, lifelong adventure for you." Really. I really mean that.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Cuba, for a bunch of reasons, is an extremely sensitive country for the >present White House admin. You might as well wear a sign "Put me on the >State Department Watch list, please." >This is playing big time with fire. If this admin suspects, incorrectly, >that you might have an ulterior motive, wants to make an example out of >you, you will find the heat on your neck in a very severe way. >Regardless of all the laws directed at Cuban visitation, it is a U. S, >patriot Act violation and that means your goose is cooked. >Any TA, and I am one, who finds a "way" to get you there, run, from. >"Well I won’t spend any money". Horeshit. They will have "evidence" you >did. >Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for Cuban >visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned. > So, I should have just gone when Clinton was in office? Damned!
Yep. > Okay, I’ll stay home and wait for Castro to die and Carnival to step > in with its first passenger ship pier in Cuba. THEN, maybe I’ll go on > a Carnival ship. > Karen
Common misconception. Castro is not the entire problem and who is to say that his replacement is better or worse? Do not think for one minute that the void the USSR created when they backed out of the Cold War (sorta) wasn’t filled by other interests.
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Get a Canadian Passport 
: Want to go to Cuba, Americanos? I do. : : Going to go? No way. Not on an exclusion, not off a ship, no chance, uh uh. : : Cuba, for a bunch of reasons, is an extremely sensitive country for the : present White House admin. You might as well wear a sign "Put me on the : State Department Watch list, please." : : This is playing big time with fire. If this admin suspects, incorrectly, : that you might have an ulterior motive, wants to make an example out of : you, you will find the heat on your neck in a very severe way. : : Regardless of all the laws directed at Cuban visitation, it is a U. S, : patriot Act violation and that means your goose is cooked. : : Any TA, and I am one, who finds a "way" to get you there, run, from. : : "Well I won’t spend any money". Horeshit. They will have "evidence" you : did. : : Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for Cuban : visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Get a Canadian Passport >: Want to go to Cuba, Americanos? I do. >: >: Going to go? No way. Not on an exclusion, not off a ship, >: no chance, uh uh. >: >: Cuba, for a bunch of reasons, is an extremely sensitive >: country for the present White House admin. You might as >: well wear a sign "Put me on the State Department Watch >: list, please." >: >: This is playing big time with fire. If this admin suspects, >: incorrectly, that you might have an ulterior motive, wants >: to make an example out of you, you will find the heat on >: your neck in a very severe way. >: >: Regardless of all the laws directed at Cuban visitation, it >: is a U. S, patriot Act violation and that means your goose >: is cooked. >: >: Any TA, and I am one, who finds a "way" to get you there, >: run, from. >: >: "Well I won’t spend any money". Horeshit. They will have >: "evidence" you did. >: >: Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for >: Cuban visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned.
Dual Passports don’t count. AmCit on unauthorized trip == cooked goose. What you do is join a recognized NGO as a volunteer, and arrange to be sent to Cuba for a legit reason. Then secure an authorization from Treasury based on the NGO status. Paperwork ahead of time beats legal fees afterwards.
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>> Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for Cuban > visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned. > And you have demonstrated your deep concern for others with your > sensitivity, empathy, and class for months. I’m attaching the appropriate > weight to your advice.
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>Dual Passports don’t count. AmCit on unauthorized trip == cooked >goose. >What you do is join a recognized NGO as a volunteer, and arrange >to be sent to Cuba for a legit reason. >Then secure an authorization from Treasury based on the NGO >status.
You can also go as part of a conference/research group. Loads of people do it every year. The plane I was on (from Jamaica) was full of American doctors. Judging by the number of times I saw some of them wandering around Havana during the day, I expect the ‘conference’ didn’t take up too much of their time. — Ken Tough
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Want to go to Cuba, Americanos? I do. >Going to go? No way. Not on an exclusion, not off a ship, no chance, uh uh. >Cuba, for a bunch of reasons, is an extremely sensitive country for the >present White House admin. You might as well wear a sign "Put me on the >State Department Watch list, please." >This is playing big time with fire. If this admin suspects, incorrectly, >that you might have an ulterior motive, wants to make an example out of >you, you will find the heat on your neck in a very severe way. >Regardless of all the laws directed at Cuban visitation, it is a U. S, >patriot Act violation and that means your goose is cooked. >Any TA, and I am one, who finds a "way" to get you there, run, from. >"Well I won’t spend any money". Horeshit. They will have "evidence" you >did. >Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for Cuban >visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned.
It’s easy to go to Cuba. 1) Don’t be a US citizen 2) Go to Cuba How easy is that? — dillon "When the French are against it, you know we can’t be far wrong." - Adm. Bobbie Ray Inman
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>>Take or leave my advice as you wish but this is no time for Cuban >visitation by Americans. You have been duly warned. > It’s easy to go to Cuba. > 1) Don’t be a US citizen > 2) Go to Cuba > How easy is that?
Getting unhooked from your American citizenship is call to alarm in itself.
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"Don’t be a US citizen" That is the most INTELLIGENT statement I have read on this newsgroup. I am not an American, and I enjoy my freedom to travel to Cuba as often as I like. If you are an American, please stay out of Cuba. There is nothing there for you. No casinos, no KFC, no Budweiser. The last thing Cuba needs, is American corruption !
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imagine this scenario……bush goes half way round the world to remove a dictator, wants that corner of the world to just accept it….. lets say, hypothetically, of course, EU nations decide to take castro out…..how much whining you think the US would do if someone wanted to remove our dictator neighbor? Chuck(whose gald that little gonzalez kid got shipped back)
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When you Americans don’t like a country because they don’t bend over to you, you guys try to remove their leader and then bomb the hell out of their civilian infrastructure. What the hell is the matter with you god damn Americans ? Do we all have to look, dress, smell, and piss like an American or else you’ll bomb us ??? In fact, the Americans have done more to hurt the Cubans than Fidel ever did ! Fidel sends a his hit men and a few missiles over to Washington because you guys don’t look, dress, smell, and piss like a Cuban !!!! Stay the hell out of CUBA !
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i think in your anti amercian rant, you somehow came to the conclusion that I support this BS in Iraq? My point was that the US sticks its big fat neck into everyone elses business, and I was wondering how we would feel as acountry if someone did to our neighbor what we are doing to the mideast. And apparentley much of the world does want to be like americans, levi jeans sell for a lot more in china and russia than any european brands, and at last check no european fast food chains had yet to crack north america, yet people line up for nasty ass McDonalds all over the world……. Chuck(who is about as anti-american as someone living in the states can be)
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Who the hell would want to be an American? I certainly do not. Americans have the highest per capita rate of obesity in the entire world. You cannot blame the fast food industry for this epidemic. It’s your own god damn lazy ass fault. "I’d better inhale this double cheese bacon burger before someone else does," mentality ! Americans are greedy, selfish, bastards with no self control.
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maybe you dont, and I certainly dont eat their crap……but the rest of the world sure as heck loves it…… you can sit in whatever little country you are in and bash america all you want…. but a good deal of medical discovery, technology and other research that contributes to this modern age is carried out in america….the world of entertainment for example….U2 aside(and the stones and floyd when they tour), there isnt one foreign act that could sell out arenas here in the states, yet our crap, britney, madonna, beyonce, etc, regulary sells out venues all over the world, i cant even tell you who tops the charts in china, but they know all our crap, i dotn know who is on tops in europe but i do know beyonce sold out every show on her european run…. In fact, if you went around your house, I would bet you have a ton of products that were invented by; or built here in the USA…. ever use a phone? ever drive a car? call us greedy, selfish, lazy, whatever, I agree with you on many levels, but to say the world doesnt want to be like us just shows how ignorant you are, it is a sad truth, but much of the world eats up the corporate crap we produce…..to deny that is just being stupid….. and c’mon who uses script letters for usenet names, that my friend is just cheesy as hell Chuck
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Hey B, dont you or didnt you own a "Khaki 2002 Liberty Renegade in Khaki"? ass little american car at that…..at least buy a real Jeep!!! Chuck(who may google your name again and find some other american influences you have)
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haha—-and here is B coming to visit america…apparently he is into Art Deco….which is an american form….lol….this guy is great…of note too, but I didnt include so as not to embarass you is when you are trying to find out if you can procure a hooker on a cruise…..bet the wife and 3 kids would love to hear that one……and why when you traded in your old ride were you so HAPPY with an american product? Okay…the hypocrisy has been pointed out…..time to return to my work…… Chuck
Question:
Ok, The lights flash 5 times then go off. the 4X4 high was working correctly up til now. We were using the high tonight, I went back out to move the truck and noticed the lights flashing. I have and actron OBDII reader (CP9135), I plugged it in but no codes were present. Not sure how to read the codes from the flashing lights. The truck has 86000 on it looks like new and runs great! I have recently changed the MAF, as well as all the recalls that I am aware of IE tensioner , TB. I change the oil regularly and use full synthetic with a K&N oil filter. I am very fond of this truck even though people call them Exploders, I have not had any problems, Til now. But I assume that this may just be a sensor problem, but nonetheless I am still frustrated over it. Searcher1
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Ok, The lights flash 5 times then go off. the 4X4 high was working correctly > up til now. We were using the high tonight, I went back out to move the > truck and noticed the lights flashing. I have and actron OBDII reader > (CP9135), I plugged it in but no codes were present. Not sure how to read > the codes from the flashing lights. The truck has 86000 on it looks like new > and runs great! I have recently changed the MAF, as well as all the recalls > that I am aware of IE tensioner , TB. I change the oil regularly and use > full synthetic with a K&N oil filter. I am very fond of this truck even > though people call them Exploders, I have not had any problems, Til now. But > I assume that this may just be a sensor problem, but nonetheless I am still > frustrated over it. > Searcher1
Be careful, You may be about to find out why "people call them Exploders". :-) Sorry couldn’t resist… Good Luck anyway.
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> Ok, The lights flash 5 times then go off. the 4X4 high was working > correctly up til now. We were using the high tonight, I went back out to > move the truck and noticed the lights flashing. I have and actron OBDII > reader (CP9135), I plugged it in but no codes were present. Not sure how > to read the codes from the flashing lights. The truck has 86000 on it > looks like new and runs great! I have recently changed the MAF, as well as > all the recalls that I am aware of IE tensioner , TB. I change the oil > regularly and use full synthetic with a K&N oil filter. I am very fond of > this truck even though people call them Exploders, I have not had any > problems, Til now. But I assume that this may just be a sensor problem, > but nonetheless I am still frustrated over it. > Searcher1
Had the same problem on a 96, was speed sensors on the transfer case. Replaced them, solved the problem. — Jack Build a man a fire, and he will be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he will be warm for the rest of his life.
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Ok, I have been over the truck, No blown fuses, No codes – all systems state "ready". Plugs and harnesses at or near the transfer case look good. No debris on undercarriage. AWD seems to engage, I took er out on a snow covered hill, the front tires engaged as normal. No strange sounds emenating from the vehicle. Called dealer, say’s bring it in we’ll take a look at it, YEAH RIGHT! I can look at it just fine thanks! It the fixing part that scares me, I don’t have any extra arms n legs to give out right now. I could fix it myself, if only I knew what it was thats broke! I also don’t want to buy sensors and such using the trial and error method. Is there a sure fire way to troubleshhot this problem. ] Searcher1 AKA Rich
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Well, perhaps understanding the system a bit will help. First of all, and a really a bit of a nit, you have 4WD, not AWD. The V8 models with AWD have both axles engaged all the time through a viscous coupling and no way to disable that or select a low-range. That system does not allow the front and rear driveshafts to be "locked" so it does not provide quite the same traction available in the Control-Trac 4WD setup. In the ‘97 and later versions of Control Trac, when you select either 4WD-Hi or 4WD-Lo the transfer case clutch pack is engaged continuously to lock the front and rear drive shafts together. This should only be used in poor traction conditions or going straight ahead as when the truck turns, the rear wheels go a shorter distance than the front and since the axles are locked together, something has to give! Either the wheels drag on the ground or something breaks or pops in the drive train. Shouldn’t be trying that! In 4WD-Auto, the clutch pack in the transfer case is periodically pulsed to close, allowing drive line bind-up to be quickly relieved, and that engagement time is regulated by the GEM looking at the relieve speeds of the front and rear drive shafts. If the rear is going faster than the front, for example, it must be slipping so increase the clutch engagement time in 10% increments until the speeds match or the front is going faster than the rear. The flashing lights mean "something" is wrong in the automatic system (usually a bad speed sensor or electrical connection, worst case a bad GEM or clutch pack), or low range is not getting engaged (bad limit switch or motor or just stuck). In the failure mode, the 4WD-Auto reverts to 2WD, only, but I believe you still engage and lock the clutch pack in the other positions. Sounds like you may have a problem with the Auto system (which is designed to handle rain and wet streets and such), but the rest may be OK if you are getting powered rotation of the front wheels. Check the connectors to the sensors and clean them, and try cleaning the gear (tone wheel?) inside as some have reported that fine shavings and crud can mess the sensors up. Next step would be to replace the sensors. Good luck! =Vic= Bear Gap, PA
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Ok, I have been over the truck, No blown fuses, No codes – all systems state > "ready". Plugs and harnesses at or near the transfer case look good. No > debris on undercarriage. AWD seems to engage, I took er out on a snow > covered hill, the front tires engaged as normal. No strange sounds emenating > from the vehicle. > Called dealer, say’s bring it in we’ll take a look at it, YEAH RIGHT! I can > look at it just fine thanks! It the fixing part that scares me, I don’t have > any extra arms n legs to give out right now. > I could fix it myself, if only I knew what it was thats broke! I also don’t > want to buy sensors and such using the trial and error method. Is there a > sure fire way to troubleshhot this problem. > ] > Searcher1 > AKA Rich
Response:
Thanks Vic, I will be looking into the sensors first thing in the morning, I need to go out and purchase a Chiltons for it first. Thanks Agian Rich AKA searcher1
Response:
I had this same symptom last year, I cleaned the metal sludge off of the sensors and it was OK for a couple of weeks. When the lights flashed again I re-cleaned the sensors AND changed the fluid. Been fine ever since. The fluid is easy to drain but you need a turkey baster, patience, and rolled up sleeves to refill it.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks Vic, > I will be looking into the sensors first thing in the morning, I need to go > out and purchase a Chiltons for it first. > Thanks Agian > Rich > AKA searcher1 >
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When you say you cleaned the metal sludge off the sensors, could you explain this to me. I have been looking for a book on how to repplace the sensors but cannot find anything local to purchase. Did you remove the sensors to clean them if so how did you do this. Is this hard to do? I am mechanically inclined. But I am just afraid to tackle this without prior knowledge. I don’t want to open the proverbeal can o worms. Will there be leakage in changing the sensors? Do I need anything special? The sensors cost 28 for one and 17 for the other, I am hoping that this is all it is and the GEM and the shift motor is still good. Like I said before the front wheels spin when the rear lose traction so I figure the TX case is fine, I just don’t hear anything to tell me that the shift motor is trying to do the job. I can remember when my 68 dodge charger tranny went and all it cost was 350 for another one and the fix was quick n easy…. Now just to figure out what is wrong you need 1000 scan tools that give you a code that tells you whats wrong. I know its much better now but whew that difficulties for the average JOE are tremendous. Searcher1
Response:
Regarding the shift motor, it is only used to shift in and out of 4WD-Low in the later versions of Control-Trac. If yours goes in and out of low range without problems, you can eliminate that as a possible problem. Other 4WD functions are done by changing the way the electromagnetic clutch pack is engaged in the transfer case. Also, the GEM controls a number of other functions such as wipers, door locks, and the interior lights. If there are no other symptoms besides the 4WD lights flashing, it is unlikely that the GEM has a problem. Usually the problem is related to the Hall-effect speed sensors in some way, from what I’ve seen. Good luck. =Vic= Bear Gap, PA
<clip> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The sensors cost 28 for one and 17 for the other, I am hoping that this is > all it is and the GEM and the shift motor is still good. Like I said before > the front wheels spin when the rear lose traction so I figure the TX case is > fine, I just don’t hear anything to tell me that the shift motor is trying > to do the job. > I can remember when my 68 dodge charger tranny went and all it cost was 350 > for another one and the fix was quick n easy…. Now just to figure out what > is wrong you need 1000 scan tools that give you a code that tells you whats > wrong. I know its much better now but whew that difficulties for the average > JOE are tremendous. > Searcher1
Response:
Great, That eases my mind. I am off to the parts store. Thanks to ALL for your help. RIch Searcher1
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Question:
Here too…very, very few Ford’s with DRL’s (or Chrysler’s/Dodge’s/Jeep’s/Benz’s, or Honda’s/Acura’s, or Nissan’s/Infiniti’s, or BMW’s, or Jaguar’s either for that matter). It’s probably fewer than 1% have DRLs among that list since it is a customer option (or a installed feature that is customer controlled by a switch) for those manufacturers. Obviously where people are given the choice, a large majority choose to leave them off (very few people want/like them…obviously!). Read the public comments at the NHTSA and it’s probably somewhere over 95% in opposition…many calling for DRLs to be banned outright (won’t happen, I’m sure). But back to the Ford NG discussion. Perhaps the Op lives in Canada where DRL’s are required? OR, he has DRL’s confused with the "auto" light control…which sounds the most likely from the comments he’s made. I can see his dilemma though. It would be impossible to be a private investigator with night survellience duties if one can’t *fully* control the operation of their lights (a problem both with DRL equipment AND "auto" equipment when *full* override controls aren’t present). I know GM’s policy only allows the disabeling of DRL’s to government and military that request it on formal letterhead and also sign a agreement to re-enable them upon resale (why GM insunuates themselves in personal matters risking alleniating it’s customer base is beyond me). But the says nothing about private investigators (that I remember) OR disabeling the "auto" light control system. Hmmm….
Response:
JCR There is a nice thread going on in alt.autos.ford about your favorite topic. Titled : Disable Daytime Running Lights. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~298,704 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
Response:
Thanks for the tip!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> JCR > There is a nice thread going on in alt.autos.ford about your favorite > topic. > Titled : Disable Daytime Running Lights. > Harryface > 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE > 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey > _~_~_~298,704 miles_~_~_ > ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ > 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible > 78 Holiday 88 coupe > 68 LeSabre convertible > 73 Impala sedan
Response:
I read the thread. What a hoot! My favorite post was the one that asked… "Does anyone have a owners manual so I can figure out how to work my lights". ROTFL. And somehow the car manufacturers think that making formerly simple control systems more complicated to operate is somehow better. Ya just have to laugh at the nonsense sometimes. Anyway…thanks for the chuckle! Really enjoyed it!
Response:
The real funny part is all the Crown Vics & Marquis I see here don’t have DRL’s – they have the automatic feature that turns them on when it gets dark out. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~298,704 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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Question:
Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. I got their two page ‘Grand Opening’ flier the other day. Guess I’m hooked into their database through MusiciansFriend. The flier had almost exclusively retail loss leader and closeout crapola… Casio keyboard, second rate effects pedals, cheap no-name strings etc… The prices were low, low, like 60% – 70% off some stuff, but it was closeout *junk*! A couple of old buddies said they went by there, and there was a line around the block just to get in the store. They didn’t wait around. I doubt I’ll ever see the place, for reasons stated below. > Just about a year ago, I was talking to one long time guitar shop owner, and he commented about how every shop in town that was in business in 1970, was still here today! I mean we have some solid old shops with loyal customer bases. To me, the market here looked impenetrable to an ‘outsider’. But I suppose nowhere is immune to the price / value driven wally world mentality. I’m curious to see if any of the old shops tank immediately, or if they attempt to band together, as I’ve seen them do before. When yellow pages adds got stupid expensive back in the 1980’s, all the local shops banded together and worked out an ‘agreement’ to only get a certain size add, and avoid a ‘bigger add war’. ATT / SWB found out about this ‘agreement’ and had a hissy. Threatened to sue everyone in town etc… I’d kind of like to see the local shops band together and run these carpet baggers out of town on a rail, but that’s probably a pipe dream. Anyways, they put this GC out in the part of town with the newest mega- mall and all of the big box retailers. It’s *the* high traffic part of town. Where folks crash their new luxury cars and SUVs into each other;because each and every one of them is damn sure that who they are, and what they’re doing is more important than all the other idiots in their rat race. Of course every other driver has a cell phone in use; because driving too fast in that heavy traffic just isn’t enough to keep their short attention span occupied. Ok… this is officially turning into one of my anti-social rants now, so I’ll get off the soap box…. Regards, John (sometimes it’s good to be) King "The United States investigates everything-usually after it’s dead." – Will Rogers
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That about covers it all… ;^) Jeff
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I’m sure that I’ve mentioned this too many times by now, but I’ve been in one Guitar Center once, when they first got into our area. The bass player dragged me to several pawn shops in the area first, which were amusing, but all of them had a very high percentage of stuff I wouldn’t want, and then to Guitar Center. I was very uncomfortable at Guitar Center, and never went back into another one. It just didn’t seem like a music store to me. It reminded me more of a car dealer. Something about them just didn’t seem honest. I couldn’t quite put my finger on what was wrong with the place, I just knew that music stores weren’t supposed to be like that. Now, maybe it’s just wishful thinking, but my feeling is that most large chain stores are doomed to be taken down by bad management, and over expansion. Large chains like Silo and Fretter and Venture and Zayres and a number of others that slip my mind, are all gone. Kmart managed to survive, but almost bit the big one. ToysRus is barely hanging on. And with a little luck, eventually Guitar Center will go under too. They might be around for a long time though. They already have, but I somehow doubt that they’ll be around forever. Pete – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – >Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. I got their two >page ‘Grand Opening’ flier the other day. Guess I’m hooked >into their database through MusiciansFriend. The flier had almost >exclusively retail loss leader and closeout crapola… Casio keyboard, >second rate effects pedals, cheap no-name strings etc… The prices >were low, low, like 60% – 70% off some stuff, but it was closeout >*junk*! >A couple of old buddies said they went by there, and there was a >line around the block just to get in the store. They didn’t wait around. >I doubt I’ll ever see the place, for reasons stated below. > >Just about a year ago, I was talking to one long time guitar shop owner, >and he commented about how every shop in town that was in business >in 1970, was still here today! I mean we have some solid old shops >with loyal customer bases. To me, the market here looked impenetrable >to an ‘outsider’. But I suppose nowhere is immune to the price / value >driven wally world mentality. I’m curious to see if any of the old shops >tank immediately, or if they attempt to band together, as I’ve seen them >do before. >When yellow pages adds got stupid expensive back in the 1980’s, all >the local shops banded together and worked out an ‘agreement’ >to only get a certain size add, and avoid a ‘bigger add war’. ATT / SWB >found out about this ‘agreement’ and had a hissy. Threatened to sue everyone >in town etc… I’d kind of like to see the local shops band together >and run >these carpet baggers out of town on a rail, but that’s probably a pipe >dream. >Anyways, they put this GC out in the part of town with the newest mega- >mall and all of the big box retailers. It’s *the* high traffic part of town. >Where folks crash their new luxury cars and SUVs into each other;because >each and every one of them is damn sure that who they are, and what >they’re doing is more important than all the other idiots in their rat >race. >Of course every other driver has a cell phone in use; because driving too >fast in that heavy traffic just isn’t enough to keep their short >attention span >occupied. >Ok… this is officially turning into one of my anti-social rants now, >so I’ll >get off the soap box…. >Regards, >John (sometimes it’s good to be) King >"The United States investigates everything-usually after >it’s dead." – Will Rogers
– There is only room enough in this world for one Mojo Jojo –Mojo Jojo
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Don’t much like Guitar Sinner a whole lot either, but I sure wish I had bought their stock. Look it up – geesh, they’ve made a big splash on Wallstreet. — Dr. Nuketopia Sorry, no e-Mail. Spam forgeries have resulted in thousands of faked bounces to my address.
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I’ve had one good experience with GC and it was several years ago when they still were dealers for Larrivee. I found a rock bottom price on a Parlour guitar on the internet, printed the ad with the price, and took it to GC. Sure enough, they matched the price. I figure shipping and sales tax were an even swap. This way I got to see the merchandise before buying. The manager shit when he saw what he had to do. I enjoyed that very much. OTOH, I’m still burning about the 19 year old salesman who wanted to sell me a cable with Neutrik (he pronouced it noy-trick) plugs. Even after I said it "new trick" he continued to insult me, the 50 yr old customer (who is always right even when he’s wrong) by saying it "noy trick". I asked for a short inexpensive speaker cable as I wasn’t sure the one I had just rolled was good and felt I needed a store bought one to a/b (my home rolled was fine). He started with a long Monster cable with a ridiculous price tag. I was ready to walk out, but figured it wasn’t worth my time to make another stop. Granted, that Neutrik is probably a good German name and over there, they probably say noy-trick. Just not here. Harrummph!
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> When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my > attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were > even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in > their sales seminar.
LMAO. That’s my attitude as well.
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>>When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my >attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were >even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in >their sales seminar. > LMAO. That’s my attitude as well.
Agreed. I sometimes feel a little sorry for them, since they are trying to do their "best" to *sell* stuff. They get sales training from the staff and are told to "go get’m"… Nobody tells them to consider the fact that the customer may know 100 times more than they’ll EVER know, and that helping that customer is a different thing than helping a newbie teenager. gtski
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>"noy trick" I kind of doubt that they pronounce it that way over in >Germany, but I could be wrong. >When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my >attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were >even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in >their sales seminar. >Pete >– >There is only room enough in this world for one Mojo Jojo –Mojo Jojo
Fortunately, I haven’t had too suffer too much of that syndrome around here. The few music stores I go into, I’ve been going to for 20+ years, and I bypass the younger hired help and go to the owner / old-timer salesman that I’ve known for many years. Same with most the pawnshops. On rare occasions that I do have to deal with a ‘kid’, I’m well trained at overlooking their know-it-all ignorance, as I’ve been around nieces / nephews and foster kids a lot. Kinda weird how the shoe is on the other foot now though. It seems like when I was 17-19 years old, all the salesmen were 30+ old farts that dealt with me in a brush-off ’don’t-bother-me-kid’ kind of way; and I resented the hell out of it. Especially when I was standing there with a pocket full-o-cash ready to buy. Regards, John King The times they are a changin’
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>. . . The flier had almost > exclusively retail loss leader and closeout crapola… Casio keyboard, > second rate effects pedals, cheap no-name strings etc… The prices > were low, low, like 60% – 70% off some stuff, but it was closeout > *junk*!
I have mixed emotions about the local GC. I like their stock of software in the "Keyboards & Pro Audio" dept, and they usually have a few unusual but overpriced pieces of used gear. I agree that very little of what they sell new is top-of-the-line stuff. Most of it is poorly set up $199 guitars made in China and cheap pedals and little toy amps. The biggest joke IMHO is that the sales staff turnover is quite high except for a couple of "managers" and this shows in complete lack of knowledge. TWICE I have had the experience that a would-be customer turned to me for information. Both times I closed the deal for the salesman, who just stood by with his hands in his pockets. The buyers each spent $1,000 to $1,500 on guitar, amp and accessories. Of course the salespeople never bother to cut me in on the commission or even offer me a cup of coffee. Chris Taylor Boston (hate to admit it, but a regular at GC, Natick MASS.)
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"noy trick" I kind of doubt that they pronounce it that way over in >Germany, but I could be wrong. >When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my >attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were >even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in >their sales seminar. >Pete >– >There is only room enough in this world for one Mojo Jojo –Mojo Jojo >Fortunately, I haven’t had too suffer too much of that syndrome >around here. The few music stores I go into, I’ve been going to >for 20+ years, and I bypass the younger hired help and go to the >owner / old-timer salesman that I’ve known for many years. >Same with most the pawnshops. >On rare occasions that I do have to deal with a ‘kid’, I’m well trained >at overlooking their know-it-all ignorance, as I’ve been around >nieces / nephews and foster kids a lot. >Kinda weird how the shoe is on the other foot now though. It seems >like when I was 17-19 years old, all the salesmen were 30+ old farts >that dealt with me in a brush-off ’don’t-bother-me-kid’ kind of way; >and I resented the hell out of it. Especially when I was standing there >with a pocket full-o-cash ready to buy. >Regards, >John King >The times they are a changin’
Funny thing is, I don’t remember getting old, but all of a sudden, people who seemed like they were my age, were actually 10 to 15 years younger than me, and all the teenagers seemed like they were ten years old. Then when cops with peach fuzz started showing up, I figured something had changed. Pete — There is only room enough in this world for one Mojo Jojo –Mojo Jojo
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ve had one good experience with GC and it was several years ago when they >still were dealers for Larrivee. I found a rock bottom price on a Parlour >guitar on the internet, printed the ad with the price, and took it to GC. >Sure enough, they matched the price. I figure shipping and sales tax were >an even swap. This way I got to see the merchandise before buying. The >manager shit when he saw what he had to do. I enjoyed that very much. >OTOH, I’m still burning about the 19 year old salesman who wanted to sell me >a cable with Neutrik (he pronouced it noy-trick) plugs. Even after I said >it "new trick" he continued to insult me, the 50 yr old customer (who is >always right even when he’s wrong) by saying it "noy trick". I asked for a >short inexpensive speaker cable as I wasn’t sure the one I had just rolled >was good and felt I needed a store bought one to a/b (my home rolled was >fine). He started with a long Monster cable with a ridiculous price tag. I >was ready to walk out, but figured it wasn’t worth my time to make another >stop. Granted, that Neutrik is probably a good German name and over there, >they probably say noy-trick. Just not here. >Harrummph! > "noy trick" I kind of doubt that they pronounce it that way over in > Germany, but I could be wrong.
Nearly every music shop I’ve been in over here in the UK pronounces that brand name "noytrick" but seeing them being called "newtrick" doesn’t really surprise me from a place that calls those tanks formerly made in Birmingham, UK, " Jagwaaaar" when it’s so obviously "jagyooar"…. better go now, got to see to my "vacwum" flask for work ;-P – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my > attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were > even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in > their sales seminar. > Pete > — > There is only room enough in this world for one Mojo Jojo –Mojo Jojo
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> Nearly every music shop I’ve been in over here in the UK pronounces that > brand name "noytrick" but seeing them being called "newtrick" doesn’t really > surprise me from a place that calls those tanks formerly made in Birmingham, > UK, " Jagwaaaar" when it’s so obviously "jagyooar"…. better go now, got to > see to my "vacwum" flask for work ;-P
I enjoyed that very much <grin>. Not at all surprised to hear that, as I remember from my one semseter of college German that it’s really noytrik. It’s just that when you live somewhere where the locals have a dialect or whatever that "informs" their pronunciation, my sense is that going along is better than rowing upstream. Here’s an amusing example from the Hampden neighborhood of Baltimore: Buena Vista Avenue. Hampden is generally though of as a stronghold of white, blue collar workers (construction, fire, police, post office, etc), though I suspect it’s been changing over the years. So, how is it said? "b-yoo-nuh-vista" I couldn’t believe it when one of my former co-workers who grew up in that neighborhood and even studied a litte Spanish informed me that I hadn’t said it right! Now, I’ll hop in my jagwaar and take it for a spin, if you please.
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<snip> >Nearly every music shop I’ve been in over here in the UK pronounces that >brand name "noytrick" but seeing them being called "newtrick" doesn’t really >surprise me from a place that calls those tanks formerly made in Birmingham, >UK, " Jagwaaaar" when it’s so obviously "jagyooar"…. better go now, got to >see to my "vacwum" flask for work ;-P
Down here in Okie-zakistan and Baja Okla. I hear the car brand you refer to pronounced: Jag-u-wire, until those old boys down in Texas put a Chevy V-8 in them so that they can actually propel themselves down the road for more than a few miles without repair; then we call them a Jag-rolet I always wanted a Jag-rolet. Best of both worlds, classy looks, and bullet proof engine. Regards, John King
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>Now, I’ll hop in my jagwaar and take it for a spin, if you please.
Anyone who can synchronize that many carbonators can call his car any damn thing he wants to!! Pete — There is only room enough in this world for one Mojo Jojo –Mojo Jojo
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ><snip> >Nearly every music shop I’ve been in over here in the UK pronounces that >brand name "noytrick" but seeing them being called "newtrick" doesn’t really >surprise me from a place that calls those tanks formerly made in Birmingham, >UK, " Jagwaaaar" when it’s so obviously "jagyooar"…. better go now, got to >see to my "vacwum" flask for work ;-P >Down here in Okie-zakistan and Baja Okla. I hear the >car brand you refer to pronounced: Jag-u-wire, until those >old boys down in Texas put a Chevy V-8 in them so that >they can actually propel themselves down the road for >more than a few miles without repair; then we call them >a Jag-rolet >I always wanted a Jag-rolet. Best of both worlds, classy >looks, and bullet proof engine.
I just bought a Jeep-rolet. Sort of a distant cousin. Claude
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John King, tied to the tracks, said: > Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. I got their two > page ‘Grand Opening’ flier the other day. Guess I’m hooked > into their database through MusiciansFriend. The flier had almost > exclusively retail loss leader and closeout crapola… Casio keyboard, > second rate effects pedals, cheap no-name strings etc… The prices > were low, low, like 60% – 70% off some stuff, but it was closeout > *junk*!
I don’t get their fliers, and they have a lot of the usual, modern junk, but… the Austin store (like Mars before) seems to be a cut above the other GCs. I still only go to them when I can’t find what I want elsewhere, though; I’m a big fan of the local stores. (I can’t tell you how much I despise Wal-Mart.) -Miles
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Any of you bone heads even remember your first job? How nervous you were or didn’t even give a shit cause you hated it? Well the kids that start work at GC *THOUGHT* they were getting their dream job. Woke up at GC and realized that they either produce sales or G’day mate. Some may "know" something about the product some may not, as with any kid in any job they all have to start somewhere without much more knowledge than how to clock in and what time to show up. As far as product goes do you really think that ANY instrument maker makes better quality instruments for "Mom & Pop" shops? Sure the individuals that work there may hold long conversations with you about one of the products but ask them how much of a discount you can get and you’ll see the difference. Where the "Mom & Pop’s" have it over places like GC is service and special orders and advice and lessons. They cannot compete with deep discounts and volume buyers, as far as the turnover for sales staff, I have been going to the same hospital every six months for the last 15 years and never had the same nurse twice. Yes the music is loud and the kids there don’t know shit, but neither did you when you first started playing……. Marc
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->. . . The flier had almost > exclusively retail loss leader and closeout crapola… Casio > keyboard, > second rate effects pedals, cheap no-name strings etc… The prices > were low, low, like 60% – 70% off some stuff, but it was closeout > *junk*! > I have mixed emotions about the local GC. I like their stock of > software in the "Keyboards & Pro Audio" dept, and they usually have a > few unusual but overpriced pieces of used gear. I agree that very > little of what they sell new is top-of-the-line stuff. Most of it is > poorly set up $199 guitars made in China and cheap pedals and little > toy amps. > The biggest joke IMHO is that the sales staff turnover is quite high > except for a couple of "managers" and this shows in complete lack of > knowledge. TWICE I have had the experience that a would-be customer > turned to me for information. Both times I closed the deal for the > salesman, who just stood by with his hands in his pockets. The buyers > each spent $1,000 to $1,500 on guitar, amp and accessories. > Of course the salespeople never bother to cut me in on the commission > or even offer me a cup of coffee. > Chris Taylor > Boston > (hate to admit it, but a regular at GC, Natick MASS.)
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gtski, tied to the tracks, said: > David replied to Pete: >>When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my >>attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were >>even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in >>their sales seminar. > LMAO. That’s my attitude as well.
[Ditto, FWIW] > Agreed. I sometimes feel a little sorry for them, since they are > trying to do their "best" to *sell* stuff. They get sales training > from the staff and are told to "go get’m"… > Nobody tells them to consider the fact that the customer may know 100 > times more than they’ll EVER know, and that helping that customer is a > different thing than helping a newbie teenager.
The cool thing about GC (and Mars, R.I.P) in Austin is that it’s mostly staffed by musicians, or at least people who are knowledgeable about the products. When the sales guy tells me "this is the closest thing we have in the store to that ‘74 Strat", he is absolutely right. (One example.) Most of them are *gigging* musicians. Same with every music store in town.
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Austin, TX? Love that place, Hate Houston 
((( Marc – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> gtski, tied to the tracks, said: > David replied to Pete: >>>When it comes to really young people pretending to be experts, my >>>attitude is that I was right about everything years before they were >>>even born. And that pretty much trumps everything they learned in >>>their sales seminar. >> LMAO. That’s my attitude as well. > [Ditto, FWIW] > Agreed. I sometimes feel a little sorry for them, since they are > trying to do their "best" to *sell* stuff. They get sales training > from the staff and are told to "go get’m"… > Nobody tells them to consider the fact that the customer may know 100 > times more than they’ll EVER know, and that helping that customer is a > different thing than helping a newbie teenager. > The cool thing about GC (and Mars, R.I.P) in Austin is that > it’s mostly staffed by musicians, or at least people who > are knowledgeable about the products. When the sales guy > tells me "this is the closest thing we have in the store to > that ‘74 Strat", he is absolutely right. (One example.) > Most of them are *gigging* musicians. > Same with every music store in town.
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Buwayyno vista…
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Nearly every music shop I’ve been in over here in the UK pronounces that > brand name "noytrick" but seeing them being called "newtrick" doesn’t > really > surprise me from a place that calls those tanks formerly made in > Birmingham, > UK, " Jagwaaaar" when it’s so obviously "jagyooar"…. better go now, got > to > see to my "vacwum" flask for work ;-P > I enjoyed that very much <grin>. > Not at all surprised to hear that, as I remember from my one semseter of > college German that it’s really noytrik. It’s just that when you live > somewhere where the locals have a dialect or whatever that "informs" their > pronunciation, my sense is that going along is better than rowing > upstream. > Here’s an amusing example from the Hampden neighborhood of Baltimore: > Buena > Vista Avenue. Hampden is generally though of as a stronghold of white, > blue > collar workers (construction, fire, police, post office, etc), though I > suspect it’s been changing over the years. So, how is it said? > "b-yoo-nuh-vista" I couldn’t believe it when one of my former co-workers > who grew up in that neighborhood and even studied a litte Spanish informed > me that I hadn’t said it right! > Now, I’ll hop in my jagwaar and take it for a spin, if you please.
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> > "noy trick" I kind of doubt that they pronounce it that way over in > Germany, but I could be wrong.
You would be.
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> I also despise Wal-Mart but I must admit to having > a secret aspiration to become a Wal-Mart greeter > once my current job is off-shored.
Setting your career expectations pretty high aren’t you ? I think you have to be of retirement age for that position. . At least we won’t compete for the hunting department asst manager trainee positon ( John Prine song). I had a EE friend who was unemployeed for 2 years until getting a job at Dell. Since his wife worked in the tech field , they were surviving , but he tried to get jobs at Loews and Home Depot in the electrical department(s) ( wattage , switches , electron flow control) just to get out of the house and he was over quailified.. Cheers.
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> Well, it was bound to happen sooner or later. I got their two > page ‘Grand Opening’ flier the other day. Guess I’m hooked > into their database through MusiciansFriend. The flier had almost > exclusively retail loss leader and closeout crapola… Casio keyboard, > second rate effects pedals, cheap no-name strings etc… The prices > were low, low, like 60% – 70% off some stuff, but it was closeout > *junk*!
The GC in N. Houston has a nice trade in section. At least I had a opportunity to play a 60’s SG in prime shape and then I bought a Epiphone SG 400 at a local shop instead who had better prices for 1/6 of the 60’s. wb
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve had one good experience with GC and it was several years ago when > they > still were dealers for Larrivee. I found a rock bottom price on a Parlour > guitar on the internet, printed the ad with the price, and took it to GC. > Sure enough, they matched the price. I figure shipping and sales tax were > an even swap. This way I got to see the merchandise before buying. The > manager shit when he saw what he had to do. I enjoyed that very much. > OTOH, I’m still burning about the 19 year old salesman who wanted to sell > me > a cable with Neutrik (he pronouced it noy-trick) plugs. Even after I said > it "new trick" he continued to insult me, the 50 yr old customer (who is > always right even when he’s wrong) by saying it "noy trick". I asked for > a > short inexpensive speaker cable as I wasn’t sure the one I had just rolled > was good and felt I needed a store bought one to a/b (my home rolled was > fine). He started with a long Monster cable with a ridiculous price tag. > I > was ready to walk out, but figured it wasn’t worth my time to make another > stop. Granted, that Neutrik is probably a good German name and over > there, > they probably say noy-trick. Just not here. > Harrummph!
Where is "here"? Sorry ’bout that, but as long as I’ve been in and around pro audio, it’s been "noy-trick" … just as Neumann mikes are "noy-man". BTW, I’m not sure what your problem with Neutrik plugs is, I’ve had cables made with them last a long time. How was it an insult? Do you feel that all salesmen should change pronunciation to agree with yours, or just the 19 year old one? Maybe he felt the same way as you did about the exchange … or maybe you were being funny and I just didn’t get it. :-) Don
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Mr. Always Right, Do you mean "The 50 Year old Child?" who stomps his foot cause he’s always right? Grow up man, your old enough to!
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’ve had one good experience with GC and it was several years ago when > they > still were dealers for Larrivee. I found a rock bottom price on a > Parlour > guitar on the internet, printed the ad with the price, and took it to GC. > Sure enough, they matched the price. I figure shipping and sales tax > were > an even swap. This way I got to see the merchandise before buying. The > manager shit when he saw what he had to do. I enjoyed that very much. > OTOH, I’m still burning about the 19 year old salesman who wanted to sell > me > a cable with Neutrik (he pronouced it noy-trick) plugs. Even after I > said > it "new trick" he continued to insult me, the 50 yr old customer (who is > always right even when he’s wrong) by saying it "noy trick". I asked for > a > short inexpensive speaker cable as I wasn’t sure the one I had just > rolled > was good and felt I needed a store bought one to a/b (my home rolled was > fine). He started with a long Monster cable with a ridiculous price tag. > I > was ready to walk out, but figured it wasn’t worth my time to make > another > stop. Granted, that Neutrik is probably a good German name and over > there, > they probably say noy-trick. Just not here. > Harrummph! > Where is "here"? Sorry ’bout that, but as long as I’ve been in and around > pro audio, it’s been "noy-trick" … just as Neumann mikes are "noy-man". > BTW, I’m not sure what your problem with Neutrik plugs is, I’ve had cables > made with them last a long time. > How was it an insult? Do you feel that all salesmen should change > pronunciation to agree with yours, or just the 19 year old one? Maybe he > felt the same way as you did about the exchange … or maybe you were > being > funny and I just didn’t get it. :-) > Don
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Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the history books. On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them to a higher level. "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 yards." During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the world. [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police officer from Bryan, Texas. Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or > others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But > first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: > AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot > scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the > tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine > sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to > the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. > The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. > As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, > the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot > mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. > It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the > history books. > On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of > Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with > Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine > Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them > to a higher level. > "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest > confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons > platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad > guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 > yards." > During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers > demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that > well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the > world. > [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] > Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): > [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police > officer from Bryan, Texas. > Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? > Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. > [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu > From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206
I just saw that article myself and emailed it to a couple friends… both marines.. (no longer in service). A third that I told to check out the link is a semi-retired marine sniper/demolitions guy. This guy has some REALLY hair raising stories from Iraq. (whew..! ! ! As in, pre-war incursions, special ops, etc…) Actually, the shooting mentioned in the article is "not bad" for a "part timer"… I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… IIRC, it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. gtski
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or > others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But > first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: > AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot > scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the > tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine > sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to > the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. > The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. > As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, > the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot > mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. > It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the > history books. > On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of > Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with > Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine > Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them > to a higher level. > "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest > confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons > platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad > guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 > yards." > During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers > demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that > well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the > world. > [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] > Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): > [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police > officer from Bryan, Texas. > Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? > Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. > [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu > From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206
Also… try this link… http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab500… SHEESH…! ! ! Thats some link . .! ! ! If that doesn’t work… try www.marines.mil Then search for "longest" and look for the Jan 2, 2005 article "marine sniper credited…" gtski
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or > others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But > first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: > AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot > scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the > tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine > sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to > the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. > The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. > As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, > the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot > mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. > It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the > history books. > On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of > Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with > Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine > Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them > to a higher level. > "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest > confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons > platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad > guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 > yards." > During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers > demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that > well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the > world. > [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] > Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): > [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police > officer from Bryan, Texas. > Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? > Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. > [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu > From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206 >Also… try this link… >http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab500… >SHEESH…! ! ! Thats some link . .! ! ! >If that doesn’t work… try www.marines.mil >Then search for "longest" and look for the Jan 2, 2005 article >"marine sniper credited…" >gtski
If you enclose long links in < > then they generally will be treated as one line and won’t wrap… <http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab500…> Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest confirmed kill the last time I checked… Claude
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>Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest >confirmed kill the last time I checked…
http://www.witiger.com/hobbies/military.htm An anonymous Canadian sniper from the "Princess Pats" during Operation Anaconda at 2400 meters stretched past White Feather’s 2250 meters. Both sniper weapons were chambered for 50 BMG. http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i2300id.html http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/snipe.htm A 50 cal seems a bit much, but I’m just an amateur. I guess they must be pretty dangerous.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest >confirmed kill the last time I checked… > http://www.witiger.com/hobbies/military.htm > An anonymous Canadian sniper from the "Princess Pats" during >Operation Anaconda at 2400 meters stretched past White Feather’s 2250 >meters. Both sniper weapons were chambered for 50 BMG. >http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i2300id.html >http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/snipe.htm > A 50 cal seems a bit much, but I’m just an amateur. >I guess they must be pretty dangerous.
Shoots relatively flat and accurately at long distances. Thanks for the update Claude
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> Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest > confirmed kill the last time I checked…
Carlos Hathcock? Heh. Does he play guitar?
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50 cal sniper rifles are actually considered to be anti-vehicle weapons. One shot will crack an engine block on an unarmored vehicle. I can only assume that the 50cal bullet has an excellent long-range ballistic profile. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest >confirmed kill the last time I checked… > http://www.witiger.com/hobbies/military.htm > An anonymous Canadian sniper from the "Princess Pats" during > Operation Anaconda at 2400 meters stretched past White Feather’s 2250 > meters. Both sniper weapons were chambered for 50 BMG. > http://www.mbr-pwrc.usgs.gov/id/framlst/i2300id.html > http://www.birdsofbritain.co.uk/bird-guide/snipe.htm > A 50 cal seems a bit much, but I’m just an amateur. > I guess they must be pretty dangerous.
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> An anonymous Canadian sniper from the "Princess Pats" during >Operation Anaconda at 2400 meters stretched past White Feather’s 2250 >meters. Both sniper weapons were chambered for 50 BMG. > Shoots relatively flat and accurately at long distances.
Ain’t nothin’ man-portable that shoots flat to 2400 meters. Distance-optimized 50 BMG round will drop about 100 MOA at 2500 yards – over 200 feet of drop! Joe Liberty in my Lifetime! http://lingua-data.com
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gtski flew overhead yelling: > I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… IIRC, > it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall.
IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy around who could do single shots with that gun). Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot.
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claudel flew overhead yelling: > Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock …
White Feather! I’m tired and couldn’t recall his real name, and I can’t find his bio (I know it’s in this house!) Thanks.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or >> others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But >> first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: >> AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot >> scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the >> tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine >> sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to >> the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. >> The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. >> As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, >> the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot >> mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. >> It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the >> history books. >> On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of >> Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with >> Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine >> Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them >> to a higher level. >> "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest >> confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons >> platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad >> guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 >> yards." >> During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers >> demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that >> well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the >> world. >> [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] >> Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): >> [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police >> officer from Bryan, Texas. >> Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? >> Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. >> [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu >> From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206 >Also… try this link… >http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d
458/81846e3645b6298285256f7d006744cd?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,longest >SHEESH…! ! ! Thats some link . .! ! ! >If that doesn’t work… try www.marines.mil >Then search for "longest" and look for the Jan 2, 2005 article >"marine sniper credited…" >gtski >If you enclose long links in < > then they generally will be >treated as one line and won’t wrap… ><http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d
458/81846e3645b6298285256f7d006744cd?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,longest> >Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest >confirmed kill the last time I checked… >Claude
On your newsreader, maybe … on AOL, his original link, without the "<>"’s came up as an actual link … when you put the "<>"’s in there, it just came up as an extra long word, but no link. Lostpup198 "Of all the so-called natural human rights that have ever been invented, liberty is least likely to be cheap and is never free of cost." — Robert A. Heinlein (1907-1988) Source: Starship Troopers, 1959
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> gtski flew overhead yelling: > I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… IIRC, > it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. > IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC > had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy > around who could do single shots with that gun).
I expect it wasn’t a machine gun, but a .50 cal sniper rifle. They are classified as ‘anti vehicle’ weapons, probably for taking out jeeps and trucks. > Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot.
Amazing.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or >>> others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But >>> first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: >>> AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot >>> scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the >>> tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine >>> sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to >>> the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. >>> The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. >>> As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, >>> the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot >>> mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. >>> It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the >>> history books. >>> On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of >>> Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with >>> Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine >>> Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them >>> to a higher level. >>> "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest >>> confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons >>> platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad >>> guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 >>> yards." >>> During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers >>> demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that >>> well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the >>> world. >>> [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] >>> Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): >>> [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police >>> officer from Bryan, Texas. >>> Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? >>> Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. >>> [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu >>> From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206 >>Also… try this link… >>http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d >458/81846e3645b6298285256f7d006744cd?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,longest >>SHEESH…! ! ! Thats some link . .! ! ! >>If that doesn’t work… try www.marines.mil >>Then search for "longest" and look for the Jan 2, 2005 article >>"marine sniper credited…" >>gtski >If you enclose long links in < > then they generally will be >treated as one line and won’t wrap… ><http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/ac95bc775efc34c685256ab50049d >458/81846e3645b6298285256f7d006744cd?OpenDocument&Highlight=2,longest> >Gunnery Sgt. Carlos Hathcock was credited with the longest >confirmed kill the last time I checked… >Claude >On your newsreader, maybe … on AOL, his original link, without the "<>"’s >came up as an actual link … when you put the "<>"’s in there, it just came up >as an extra long word, but no link.
That’s why I used the weasel word "generally". :^) I use trn, the Model A of newsreaders… Besides, I said it "won’t wrap" as in the arbitrary line break that sometimes gets added, won’t, not "it’ll be a live link". I’m used to cutting and pasting links from my terminal window to my browser. The < > allows a long URL to be grabbed in one grab. Claude
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> gtski flew overhead yelling: >> I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… IIRC, >> it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. > IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC > had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy > around who could do single shots with that gun). >I expect it wasn’t a machine gun, but a .50 cal sniper rifle. They >are classified as ‘anti vehicle’ weapons, probably for taking out >jeeps and trucks. > Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot. >Amazing.
According to Gunny Hathcock’s (auto?)biography it was a M2 .50 machine gun with a scope mounted on it. The .50 rifles are from the post-Vietnam era Claude
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My uncle, a fuel tank driver in Vietnam, told me some stories. Once was of some bored soldiers making their own quad-50-cal mount for their jeep. He was very impressed by the result. Another was a story of a guy who did use a 50cal machine gun, but the way he did it was to fire a round, see where it hit, and then wait for someone to walk through that spot. Maybe it’s a story about the same guy.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> gtski flew overhead yelling: >>> I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… IIRC, >>> it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. >> IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC >> had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy >> around who could do single shots with that gun). >I expect it wasn’t a machine gun, but a .50 cal sniper rifle. They >are classified as ‘anti vehicle’ weapons, probably for taking out >jeeps and trucks. >> Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot. >Amazing. > According to Gunny Hathcock’s (auto?)biography it was a > M2 .50 machine gun with a scope mounted on it. > The .50 rifles are from the post-Vietnam era > Claude
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>My uncle, a fuel tank driver in Vietnam, told me some stories. Once was of >some bored soldiers making their own quad-50-cal mount for their jeep. He >was very impressed by the result. Another was a story of a guy who did use a >50cal machine gun, but the way he did it was to fire a round, see where it >hit, and then wait for someone to walk through that spot. Maybe it’s a >story about the same guy.
Maybe. Gunny Hathcock’s shot was confirmed, thus the record. It’s been 10 years or so since I read his book. I forget the details, other than the scoped .50 M2. He was the Jimi Hendrix of snipers, sorta… Claude – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>> gtski flew overhead yelling: >>>> I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… IIRC, >>>> it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. >>> IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC >>> had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy >>> around who could do single shots with that gun). >>I expect it wasn’t a machine gun, but a .50 cal sniper rifle. They >>are classified as ‘anti vehicle’ weapons, probably for taking out >>jeeps and trucks. >>> Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot. >>Amazing. > According to Gunny Hathcock’s (auto?)biography it was a > M2 .50 machine gun with a scope mounted on it. > The .50 rifles are from the post-Vietnam era > Claude
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I saw a History Channel special about snipers. They interviewed one Vietnam sniper who was working an area and caught a patrol of 20 ( or 30?) Viet Cong as they crossed a river. He shot them all. He was not enjoying revisiting the moment. Another sniper was working an area, and *somehow* caught wind that the Viet Cong had deployed a counter-sniper against him. As fate would have it, they met up, and the American sent a shot through the other’s scope. Close call.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->My uncle, a fuel tank driver in Vietnam, told me some stories. Once was >of >some bored soldiers making their own quad-50-cal mount for their jeep. He >was very impressed by the result. Another was a story of a guy who did use >a >50cal machine gun, but the way he did it was to fire a round, see where it >hit, and then wait for someone to walk through that spot. Maybe it’s a >story about the same guy. > Maybe. > Gunny Hathcock’s shot was confirmed, thus the record. > It’s been 10 years or so since I read his book. I forget > the details, other than the scoped .50 M2. > He was the Jimi Hendrix of snipers, sorta… > Claude >>>> gtski flew overhead yelling: >>>>> I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… >>>>> IIRC, >>>>> it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. >>>> IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC >>>> had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy >>>> around who could do single shots with that gun). >>>I expect it wasn’t a machine gun, but a .50 cal sniper rifle. They >>>are classified as ‘anti vehicle’ weapons, probably for taking out >>>jeeps and trucks. >>>> Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot. >>>Amazing. >> According to Gunny Hathcock’s (auto?)biography it was a >> M2 .50 machine gun with a scope mounted on it. >> The .50 rifles are from the post-Vietnam era >> Claude
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>I saw a History Channel special about snipers. They interviewed one Vietnam >sniper who was working an area and caught a patrol of 20 ( or 30?) Viet Cong >as they crossed a river. He shot them all. He was not enjoying revisiting >the moment. >Another sniper was working an area, and *somehow* caught wind that the Viet >Cong had deployed a counter-sniper against him. As fate would have it, they >met up, and the American sent a shot through the other’s scope. Close call.
That one was Hathcock, according to his book… Claude – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>My uncle, a fuel tank driver in Vietnam, told me some stories. Once was >>of >>some bored soldiers making their own quad-50-cal mount for their jeep. He >>was very impressed by the result. Another was a story of a guy who did use >>a >>50cal machine gun, but the way he did it was to fire a round, see where it >>hit, and then wait for someone to walk through that spot. Maybe it’s a >>story about the same guy. > Maybe. > Gunny Hathcock’s shot was confirmed, thus the record. > It’s been 10 years or so since I read his book. I forget > the details, other than the scoped .50 M2. > He was the Jimi Hendrix of snipers, sorta… > Claude >>>>> gtski flew overhead yelling: >>>>>> I’m looking back into some info I have on "record long shots"… >>>>>> IIRC, >>>>>> it’s a guy who shot in Viet Nam… really LONG shots as I recall. >>>>> IIRC, the marine sniper known as "White Feather" to the VC >>>>> had a 1.5 mile shot with a 50 cal MG (he was the only guy >>>>> around who could do single shots with that gun). >>>>I expect it wasn’t a machine gun, but a .50 cal sniper rifle. They >>>>are classified as ‘anti vehicle’ weapons, probably for taking out >>>>jeeps and trucks. >>>>> Still, 1,050 yards with a 7.62 is one heckuva shot. >>>>Amazing. >>> According to Gunny Hathcock’s (auto?)biography it was a >>> M2 .50 machine gun with a scope mounted on it. >>> The .50 rifles are from the post-Vietnam era >>> Claude
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Thank you for your very enlightening ON Topic post. Please keep us informed with more of the same, you overly obsessive gun nutso.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Okay, seems like a hundred of you guys have sent me this link[1] (or > others which cover the same incident), so I guess I should comment. But > first, a little shooting goodness for us to savor: > AR RAMADI, Iraq (Jan. 02, 2005) — Seen through a twenty-power spot > scope, terrorists scrambled to deliver another mortar round into the > tube. Across the Euphrates River from a concealed rooftop, the Marine > sniper breathed gently and then squeezed a few pounds of pressure to > the delicate trigger of the M40A3 sniper rifle in his grasp. > The rifle’s crack froze the booming Fallujah battle like a photograph. > As he moved the bolt back to load another round of 7.62mm ammunition, > the sniper’s spotter confirmed the terrorist went down from the shot > mere seconds before the next crack of the rifle dropped another. > It wasn’t the sniper’s first kill in Iraq, but it was one for the > history books. > On Nov. 11, 2004, while coalition forces fought to wrest control of > Fallujah from a terrorist insurgency, Marine scout snipers with > Company B, 1st Battalion, 23rd Marine Regiment, 31st Marine > Expeditionary Unit, applied their basic infantry skills and took them > to a higher level. > "From the information we have, our chief scout sniper has the longest > confirmed kill in Iraq so far," said Capt. Shayne McGinty, weapons > platoon commander for "Bravo" Co. "In Fallujah there were some bad > guys firing mortars at us and he took them out from more than 1,000 > yards." > During the battle for the war-torn city, 1/23 Marine scout snipers > demonstrated with patience, fearless initiative and wits that > well-trained Marines could be some of the deadliest weapons in the > world. > [waits for the cheers and applause to die down] > Here’s my second-favorite part (emphasis mine): > [The sniper] Hancock [is] a 35-year-old activated reservist and police > officer from Bryan, Texas. > Yeah… let’s have less of that "part-time soldier" bullshit, shall we? > Now go and read the whole article — it’s absolutely wonderful. > [1] http://tinyurl.com/45qgu > From http://www.kimdutoit.com/dr/weblog.php?id=P6206
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Tony Ennis flew overhead yelling: > My uncle, a fuel tank driver in Vietnam, told me some stories. Once was of > some bored soldiers making their own quad-50-cal mount for their jeep. He > was very impressed by the result. Another was a story of a guy who did use a > 50cal machine gun, but the way he did it was to fire a round, see where it > hit, and then wait for someone to walk through that spot. Maybe it’s a > story about the same guy.
Could be, but I don’t recall him discussing this. For that confirmed long shot, he fired at the enemy, and the guy suddenly ducked. A couple of second later, he stood up, just in time to catch the round through the throat (IIRC). And it was definitely a machine gun. Like I said, he was the only guy around who could use it as a sniper weapon. Hhe just had The Touch.
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claudel flew overhead yelling: … >Another sniper was working an area, and *somehow* caught wind that the Viet >Cong had deployed a counter-sniper against him. As fate would have it, they >met up, and the American sent a shot through the other’s scope. Close call. > That one was Hathcock, according to his book…
Yes! That chapter, where Hathcock and his spotter are hunting for the VC counter-sniper, is one of the coolest in the book. Tony, you really need to get a copy and read it. Here’s a link to it at Amazon (link may wrap): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0425103552/qid=11052376…
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enlightened us with these pearls of wisdom: > Thank you for your very enlightening ON Topic post. Please keep us > informed with more of the same, you overly obsessive gun nutso.
I’m sure you will keep us informed with your usual homoerotic filth and pornographic rants, right Blum? — Greg
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Whilst wandering in usenet Greg Pierce stated: > enlightened us with these pearls of wisdom: > Thank you for your very enlightening ON Topic post. Please keep us > informed with more of the same, you overly obsessive gun nutso. > I’m sure you will keep us informed with your usual homoerotic filth and > pornographic rants, right Blum?
Edward’s perpetual lowbrow behavior is one of the few givens…
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Question:
Anyone have experience with a driver side heated leather seat not working? It’s on a 2001 Pontiac Bonneville. It’ll come on momentarily, but won’t stay on. Any ideas? Thanks Tim
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Sorry, reply to ncspeice AT earthlink DOT net. Thanks Tim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Anyone have experience with a driver side heated leather seat not working? > It’s on a 2001 Pontiac Bonneville. It’ll come on momentarily, but won’t > stay on. Any ideas? > Thanks > Tim
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Might be a cracked wire going to the heating element. Might be the on / off switch. A friend has heated seats in his 1999 Chrysler 300. $416.00 to replace the heating element – going on two winters now with no heat in the driverseat. If you disassemble the seat I think the side airbag ( if equipped ) has to be disabled or you might get it in the face. Good Luck. Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~297,324 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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Question:
> Well they must be doing something right, they outsell all other > manufactures including, Ford, Toyota and Chrysler. In fact in the > US GM and Ford together outsell ALL the other, combined.
Not for much longer. GM and Ford have both been steadily loosing market share for almost 30 years now. That trend has only one logical conclusion and there has been no sign of either company really turning it around. GM is doing some things better than they used to, but they still are not getting ahead of the curve and market share continues to dive. If the best thing you can say for GM is that they are big ……. John
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> There has also been a $500 dollar engine repair due to what the > mechanic told me was an engineering design problem associated with that > particular engine (3.1 v6). Good God! Will this ever end??!!
Yep, intake manifold gasket leaks have been an epidemic on that series of engines for many years now. > I have absolutely no sympathy for the eventual demise of GM and its > employees. It is a well deserved fate!
It sure looks like the US auto industry is following the path first blazed by the UK auto industry. John
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> That is correct look at the total sales. When you do you will > find that GM and Ford are selling more vehicles than any time in > history, not less. You continue to make the mistake of not > taking into consideration the expanding market in the US and the > world. Twenty-five years ago when GM had a higher PERCENTAGE of > the US market they sold less than half as many vehicles as they > do today. Both GM and Ford sell more trucks today, where the > market is, than they sold total vehicles back then. The market > then was around nine million, now it is more than twice that.
Yes but there are a couple things that are a problem here. First, if the percentage of market share for GM had maintained the same, then GM would be selling quadruple more vehicles than back then, not just double. Second, market share is extremely important to a manufacturer because it has a direct effect on pricing. The higher the manufacturer’s market share the less pricing pressure they have on them and the higher they can price their stuff. And this works right down the line because not only do they make more money, they make more money for less work which means salaries for everyone in the company can be higher and everyone in the company doesen’t have to work so hard. This has a benefit on our economy as well because the workers of the company who are getting paid more now have extra money that they pump into the economy which has a secondary beneficial effect. Today with a smaller and smaller market share, even though they are selling more cars, it is a lot more work for them and they are paying their workers less – many of whom in fact have been replaced by robots – which means those workers have less money to inject into the US economy to generate secondary economic activity. Melvin you make a common mistake which is to assume that what is best for a company is always what is best for our countries economy. What your missing is that a well-managed company can be run in such a way that it’s going to turn a profit no matter what the conditions are – but if the major investors of that company aren’t in the US those profits have less chance of being spent here, and if the workers of that company have been cut to the bone then there’s less disposable money that is going to be spent here. For many years US Business was run in a manner that was extremely exploitive of the rest of the world – we regularly came into countries and put the country to work for peanuts, and extracted all the value out of the countries citizens for ourselves. Sure, they were all working but for peanuts. That was -very good- for the US and gave most citizens here a hugely higher standard of living for very little effort. Today, the rest of the world has mostly figured out this trick and they are now doing to us what we were doing to them, and most of the citizens in the country now are several generations after our heyday, and lots of them don’t even have grandparents now who were alive before the era of US exploitation. So they don’t even remember now how to really work hard to create value for themselves and their communities. So – what we have left is a workforce that mostly puts their energy into working low paying jobs for national chains who are busy sending whatever value they create right out of their communities. As a result their communities are strapped for money and are falling apart as a result. The workforce of course doesen’t understand why their children have less buying power than they did and they react by knee-jerks such as cutting taxes which merely hasten the decline of their local communities all that faster. And in between doing that the workforce is busy buying every last scrap of consumer goods they can from foreign suppliers – and bitching that there’s no decent jobs left here. So yeah, I do think there is a problem with GM losing market share. It’s symptomatic of the economic malaise in the United States. And until the workforce here starts buying locally and quits pumping money into foreign goods, we are going to be chronically short decent jobs. Sure as shootin with the current trade deficit that the rest of the world isn’t that interested in spending their money here. Ted
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> MSRP is meaningless today, I would suggest you go price vehicles > on the market today and get a ‘total drive home’ price and see > for yourself. For instance, my one son just bought a loaded V8 > Mercury Grand Marquis GS, for a total drive home price of $10,000 > less than the Toyota dealer wanted for a smaller V6 Camry that > had an MSRP nearly $4,000 higher than the GM GS. The Avalon cost > thousands more than the Camry to drive home and it is too is > smaller as well and only equipped with a V6. I have a 2005 V8 > Mustang GT convertible on order that has an MSRP of nearly $5,000 > less than a V6 Camry Solara convertible
Just last year ago we got a new 04 Sierra, I believe the MSRP was around $30,200 (extended cab, long box, 2WD..quite a pain to find here) and it got driven off the lot for around $15k. MSRP is completely meaningless nowadays.
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I know two people who have Toyota’s and they have had good luck with them. One friend has a 89 Camry, she brought it here ( to IL ) from California. Its looks great and has about 79,000 miles. Very little was done to it. The other friend ( The Jewish Lawyer ) has a 01 Corolla with almost 100,000. Just routine maintennacne & wear items replaced. His 92 Corolla, he run up to 253,000 miles.The transmission died on a trip east to Allentown, PA. ( thats when he got the 01 ) He has the trans oil changed every 25,000 miles. He drives 30,000 miles a year. In the 70’s he had a Toyota Corona. A guy I to bowled with, bought a ( new ) 1970 Bonneville 455 . It was the worst GM car he ever owned. Nothing but problems with it. He’s had GM cars his whole life, and continues to buy GM. A problematic 70’s Skylark turned off a Math Teacher I know from buying from GM ever again. Yet the bowler friend had a 71 Skylark 2 door till 1994 and it was his favorite & best car he ever owned. There’s good & bad in all car brands Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~297,188 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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><snip> >far I admit being very lucky over the 17 years of Chrysler brands…only a >head gasket problem in the wife’s old ‘97 Neon with the DHOC engine (which >Chrysler fixed even though the warranty had expired). The Dakota’s and >Caravan’s we had were darn near perfect. Chrysler’s product isn’t as good >as the experiences I’ve had (GM’s may actually be better). But the Chrysler >customer service culture has been nothing short of excellent in dealing with >the few issues that did come up. I didn’t personally have that same >"customer WOW" experience with GM.
This I believe is the heart of GM’s issue. It’s not necessarily the vehicle’s (my Olds is flawless approaching the quarter million mile mark) but I never ever take it near the dealer. There are issues with every car. My ‘81 Supra got really light in the front end at anything over 100 MPH & I never really got the A/C to work like a vehicle sold in N-America should work. but the dealer was always behind me 100%. GM / Ford & Chrysler engineer’s are the best in the world BUT ! when you’ve got a company founded by bean counters (GM) lead by bean counters & operated by bean counters the end customer’s (the dealers) are going to get shafted by the short sided sods. That’ll make it’s way to the customer’s invariably..
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I think you are missing the point. Happy Holidays Chuck in Phoenix
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It is your money, spend it where you wish. I know I do, but after > buying numerous Lexus V8’s I bought a 2000 domestic luxury car in > 1999. I have since owned several and they have proven to be just > as reliable as my Lexus, but far less expensive to buy and > maintain. As I said, from what we see in our business there is > little difference among brands, except style and price. J D > Powers does indeed list Toyota as having the least number of > problems reported by owners at 1.1 per 100 vehicles but the worst > Porsche, is only at 1.5. Hyundai is behind Toyota 1.2 problems > per 100 vehicles hardly much of a difference. In my opinion, > certainly not worth the premium price of a Toyota and their part > costs. If you are going to base your choice of a vehicle on the > opinions of others, found in surveys, why not believe the most > important of all surveys of owners? That ultimate survey, the > one where buyers make their choice and put down their money to > buy those vehicles, is sales. The Camry is the number one > selling car in the US. Apparently more buyers in the US buy the > Camry, even though it is only assembled in the US of mostly > imported parts, than any other car because they believe it is > best car for their money. More buyers in the US, more than twice > as many as buy the Camry, buy the Ford F150 because they believe > it is best truck for their money and have for 28 years. GM is > second in vehicle sales and Dodge is third. Each sell six or > seven times as many F150’s, Silverados and Rams as Toyota sells > Tundra’s. Not only do buyers buy Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks by > the millions, they do it over and over again year after year. > Surely they would not continue to go back and buy the trucks they > do, rather than Toyotas, if they actually believed Tundra was a > better truck. > mike hunt > I find www.jdpower.com an interesting website. > Click on the automotive section and see which brands are best in > different > categories. > I own an 04 Toyota Sienna van and an 04 Tundra DC. When I compare the > areas > that are most important to me ( overall quality, and resale value ), I > find > that my Toyotas come out on the top of the list and Chevys are at the > bottom > of the list. Makes me happy that I finally made the right choice in what > my > family drives. > ex GM owner, > Chuck in Phoenix > ">> a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. > >> Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the > >> comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles. > > This is a serious question, not a troll: are you sure about that? I saw > > a > > new ‘05 Corolla (5-speed) that stickered for just barely over $14K. Is > > there a domestic equivalent that is 20-30% less? What is it?
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It is your money, spend it where you wish. I know I do, but after buying numerous Lexus V8’s I bought a 2000 domestic luxury car in 1999. I have since owned several and they have proven to be just as reliable as my Lexus, but far less expensive to buy and maintain. As I said, from what we see in our business there is little difference among brands, except style and price. J D Powers does indeed list Toyota as having the least number of problems reported by owners at 1.1 per 100 vehicles but the worst Porsche, is only at 1.5. Hyundai is behind Toyota 1.2 problems per 100 vehicles hardly much of a difference. In my opinion, certainly not worth the premium price of a Toyota and their part costs. If you are going to base your choice of a vehicle on the opinions of others, found in surveys, why not believe the most important of all surveys of owners? That ultimate survey, the one where buyers make their choice and put down their money to buy those vehicles, is sales. The Camry is the number one selling car in the US. Apparently more buyers in the US buy the Camry, even though it is only assembled in the US of mostly imported parts, than any other car because they believe it is best car for their money. More buyers in the US, more than twice as many as buy the Camry, buy the Ford F150 because they believe it is best truck for their money and have for 28 years. GM is second in vehicle sales and Dodge is third. Each sell six or seven times as many F150’s, Silverados and Rams as Toyota sells Tundra’s. Not only do buyers buy Ford, Chevy and Dodge trucks by the millions, they do it over and over again year after year. Surely they would not continue to go back and buy the trucks they do, rather than Toyotas, if they actually believed Tundra was a better truck. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I find www.jdpower.com an interesting website. > Click on the automotive section and see which brands are best in different > categories. > I own an 04 Toyota Sienna van and an 04 Tundra DC. When I compare the areas > that are most important to me ( overall quality, and resale value ), I find > that my Toyotas come out on the top of the list and Chevys are at the bottom > of the list. Makes me happy that I finally made the right choice in what my > family drives. > ex GM owner, > Chuck in Phoenix > ">> a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. >> Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the >> comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles. > This is a serious question, not a troll: are you sure about that? I saw a > new ‘05 Corolla (5-speed) that stickered for just barely over $14K. Is > there a domestic equivalent that is 20-30% less? What is it?
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MSRP is meaningless today, I would suggest you go price vehicles on the market today and get a ‘total drive home’ price and see for yourself. For instance, my one son just bought a loaded V8 Mercury Grand Marquis GS, for a total drive home price of $10,000 less than the Toyota dealer wanted for a smaller V6 Camry that had an MSRP nearly $4,000 higher than the GM GS. The Avalon cost thousands more than the Camry to drive home and it is too is smaller as well and only equipped with a V6. I have a 2005 V8 Mustang GT convertible on order that has an MSRP of nearly $5,000 less than a V6 Camry Solara convertible mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> That was my point, Brad. Believing any one manufacture makes > vehicles that are far superior to another in the same price range > is a myth. From what we see in our business, and we service them > all, all manufactures are building good vehicles today. They ALL > build some that are not up to snuff, as well, that is why they > all have > a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. > Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the > comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles. > This is a serious question, not a troll: are you sure about that? I saw a > new ‘05 Corolla (5-speed) that stickered for just barely over $14K. Is > there a domestic equivalent that is 20-30% less? What is it?
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That is correct look at the total sales. When you do you will find that GM and Ford are selling more vehicles than any time in history, not less. You continue to make the mistake of not taking into consideration the expanding market in the US and the world. Twenty-five years ago when GM had a higher PERCENTAGE of the US market they sold less than half as many vehicles as they do today. Both GM and Ford sell more trucks today, where the market is, than they sold total vehicles back then. The market then was around nine million, now it is more than twice that. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Current sales numbers are useless without looking at those numbers over time > (trend). But, it is why they can go along this way for a fairly long time. > However, if the trend continues at the rate is has been, eventually that > won’t be the case. Toyota overtook Chrysler recently and is zeroing in on > Ford. GM will be the last standing for sure…but won’t be able to stay on > top unless they reverse the trend. Just doing a elementary trend chart > tells the story of what is in store unless something changes (Toyota screws > up or GM cleans up). It’s possible that management isn’t concerned since > most of the profit seems to be coming from the finance arm these days > anyway. > Well they must be doing something right, they outsell all other > manufactures including, Ford, Toyota and Chrysler. In fact in the > US GM and Ford together outsell ALL the other, combined. > mike hunt >> That would be true…never had a Toyota..anything. Although the current >> 2004 Chrysler Sebring I have has the 2.7 V6 that reportedly has a similar >> sludge problem to some of the Toyota engines. So I keep synthetic oil in >> that puppy. But then the 2003 Malibu it replaced had the 3.1 engine with >> the piston slap and intake manifold issue and various other quality >> control >> problems (water leaking into the car through poorly sealed body seams). >> So >> far I admit being very lucky over the 17 years of Chrysler brands…only >> a >> head gasket problem in the wife’s old ‘97 Neon with the DHOC engine >> (which >> Chrysler fixed even though the warranty had expired). The Dakota’s and >> Caravan’s we had were darn near perfect. Chrysler’s product isn’t as >> good >> as the experiences I’ve had (GM’s may actually be better). But the >> Chrysler >> customer service culture has been nothing short of excellent in dealing >> with >> the few issues that did come up. I didn’t personally have that same >> "customer WOW" experience with GM. >> But, as you already mentioned…I agree with you that there are probably >> some here in this NG that have had the complete opposite experience. So, >> one can only look at broad trends in where the customer is going to come >> to >> any general conclusion…and the conclusion is that GM really hasn’t >> turned >> things around yet. >> >I guess we can assume you don’t have one of those Toyotas with >> > what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ problem that is eating up >> > engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake >> > problem that is eating up rotors or >> > one with the tranny failures between 40K and 50K. ;) >> > mike hunt
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> That was my point, Brad. Believing any one manufacture makes > vehicles that are far superior to another in the same price range > is a myth. From what we see in our business, and we service them > all, all manufactures are building good vehicles today. They ALL > build some that are not up to snuff, as well, that is why they > all have > a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. > Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the > comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles.
This is a serious question, not a troll: are you sure about that? I saw a new ‘05 Corolla (5-speed) that stickered for just barely over $14K. Is there a domestic equivalent that is 20-30% less? What is it?
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I find www.jdpower.com an interesting website. Click on the automotive section and see which brands are best in different categories. I own an 04 Toyota Sienna van and an 04 Tundra DC. When I compare the areas that are most important to me ( overall quality, and resale value ), I find that my Toyotas come out on the top of the list and Chevys are at the bottom of the list. Makes me happy that I finally made the right choice in what my family drives. ex GM owner, Chuck in Phoenix ">> a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the > comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles. > This is a serious question, not a troll: are you sure about that? I saw a > new ‘05 Corolla (5-speed) that stickered for just barely over $14K. Is > there a domestic equivalent that is 20-30% less? What is it?
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Current sales numbers are useless without looking at those numbers over time (trend). But, it is why they can go along this way for a fairly long time. However, if the trend continues at the rate is has been, eventually that won’t be the case. Toyota overtook Chrysler recently and is zeroing in on Ford. GM will be the last standing for sure…but won’t be able to stay on top unless they reverse the trend. Just doing a elementary trend chart tells the story of what is in store unless something changes (Toyota screws up or GM cleans up). It’s possible that management isn’t concerned since most of the profit seems to be coming from the finance arm these days anyway.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well they must be doing something right, they outsell all other > manufactures including, Ford, Toyota and Chrysler. In fact in the > US GM and Ford together outsell ALL the other, combined. > mike hunt > That would be true…never had a Toyota..anything. Although the current > 2004 Chrysler Sebring I have has the 2.7 V6 that reportedly has a similar > sludge problem to some of the Toyota engines. So I keep synthetic oil in > that puppy. But then the 2003 Malibu it replaced had the 3.1 engine with > the piston slap and intake manifold issue and various other quality > control > problems (water leaking into the car through poorly sealed body seams). > So > far I admit being very lucky over the 17 years of Chrysler brands…only > a > head gasket problem in the wife’s old ‘97 Neon with the DHOC engine > (which > Chrysler fixed even though the warranty had expired). The Dakota’s and > Caravan’s we had were darn near perfect. Chrysler’s product isn’t as > good > as the experiences I’ve had (GM’s may actually be better). But the > Chrysler > customer service culture has been nothing short of excellent in dealing > with > the few issues that did come up. I didn’t personally have that same > "customer WOW" experience with GM. > But, as you already mentioned…I agree with you that there are probably > some here in this NG that have had the complete opposite experience. So, > one can only look at broad trends in where the customer is going to come > to > any general conclusion…and the conclusion is that GM really hasn’t > turned > things around yet. > >I guess we can assume you don’t have one of those Toyotas with > > what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ problem that is eating up > > engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake > > problem that is eating up rotors or > > one with the tranny failures between 40K and 50K. ;) > > mike hunt
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Well they must be doing something right, they outsell all other manufactures including, Ford, Toyota and Chrysler. In fact in the US GM and Ford together outsell ALL the other, combined. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > That would be true…never had a Toyota..anything. Although the current > 2004 Chrysler Sebring I have has the 2.7 V6 that reportedly has a similar > sludge problem to some of the Toyota engines. So I keep synthetic oil in > that puppy. But then the 2003 Malibu it replaced had the 3.1 engine with > the piston slap and intake manifold issue and various other quality control > problems (water leaking into the car through poorly sealed body seams). So > far I admit being very lucky over the 17 years of Chrysler brands…only a > head gasket problem in the wife’s old ‘97 Neon with the DHOC engine (which > Chrysler fixed even though the warranty had expired). The Dakota’s and > Caravan’s we had were darn near perfect. Chrysler’s product isn’t as good > as the experiences I’ve had (GM’s may actually be better). But the Chrysler > customer service culture has been nothing short of excellent in dealing with > the few issues that did come up. I didn’t personally have that same > "customer WOW" experience with GM. > But, as you already mentioned…I agree with you that there are probably > some here in this NG that have had the complete opposite experience. So, > one can only look at broad trends in where the customer is going to come to > any general conclusion…and the conclusion is that GM really hasn’t turned > things around yet. >I guess we can assume you don’t have one of those Toyotas with > what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ problem that is eating up > engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake > problem that is eating up rotors or > one with the tranny failures between 40K and 50K. ;) > mike hunt
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That would be true…never had a Toyota..anything. Although the current 2004 Chrysler Sebring I have has the 2.7 V6 that reportedly has a similar sludge problem to some of the Toyota engines. So I keep synthetic oil in that puppy. But then the 2003 Malibu it replaced had the 3.1 engine with the piston slap and intake manifold issue and various other quality control problems (water leaking into the car through poorly sealed body seams). So far I admit being very lucky over the 17 years of Chrysler brands…only a head gasket problem in the wife’s old ‘97 Neon with the DHOC engine (which Chrysler fixed even though the warranty had expired). The Dakota’s and Caravan’s we had were darn near perfect. Chrysler’s product isn’t as good as the experiences I’ve had (GM’s may actually be better). But the Chrysler customer service culture has been nothing short of excellent in dealing with the few issues that did come up. I didn’t personally have that same "customer WOW" experience with GM. But, as you already mentioned…I agree with you that there are probably some here in this NG that have had the complete opposite experience. So, one can only look at broad trends in where the customer is going to come to any general conclusion…and the conclusion is that GM really hasn’t turned things around yet.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I guess we can assume you don’t have one of those Toyotas with > what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ problem that is eating up > engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake > problem that is eating up rotors or > one with the tranny failures between 40K and 50K. ;) > mike hunt
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That was my point, Brad. Believing any one manufacture makes vehicles that are far superior to another in the same price range is a myth. From what we see in our business, and we service them all, all manufactures are building good vehicles today. They ALL build some that are not up to snuff, as well, that is why they all have a warranty. The only real difference is style and price. Japanese vehicles cost 20% to 30% more to drive home than do the comparable size and equipped domestic vehicles. Give any brand the proper preventive maintenance and they will easily go to 300K trouble free. The problem today is many seem to believe the manufacture has an obligation to fix their vehicles for as long as they own them. Hell I remember when new car warranties were 1,000 miles or thirty days. It took thirty years till warranties went up to 4,000 or ninety days, WOF You are correct about the brake problem, it goes way back to the governments ban on using asbestos. Same problem with paint, government banned some paint ingredients. The government and the environuts did not allow time for the manufactures to develop and prove the alternative materials they had to use in place of the banned ingredients and the consumer and the manufactures paid the bills for the governments mistake. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>It’s your money spend it were you wish buy I hope you don’t have >>one of those Toyotas with what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ >>problem that is eating up engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty >>with the reoccurring brake problem that is eating up rotors > GM has a problem with a large group of their engines (piston slap). > GM has a problem with rotors and brakes being eaten up prematurely. > The problems are not localized to any one manufacturer, more likely a > select group of suppliers providing sub-statndard parts.
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>>It’s your money spend it were you wish buy I hope you don’t have >one of those Toyotas with what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ >problem that is eating up engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty >with the reoccurring brake problem that is eating up rotors
GM has a problem with a large group of their engines (piston slap). GM has a problem with rotors and brakes being eaten up prematurely. The problems are not localized to any one manufacturer, more likely a select group of suppliers providing sub-statndard parts.
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If that were true why then do we see so many Toyotas on dealers used car lots that were traded in on other brands? Why are they not buying another Toyota. Could it be every manufacture, including Toyota, makes some that are problematic? I have not had a bad vehicle, domestic or foreign, in so long I can not remember when. I’ll bet there are plenty of guys in this NG that have owned GM vehicles, that never had a problem with GM or its dealers and have driven their vehicles to high mileage’s trouble free as well. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > I drive an ‘89 1500 V-6 Chevy Pickup. It has a little over 61000 miles. > Had to have a short black put in it at 32000. Looks like heck, but has > a 5 speed and there’s been few problems since the short block. > I also have a ‘94 Chrysler Concorde. Runs like a BOOH, got 28.5 mpg > this past Tuesday, and will never buy another Chrysler product. > Transmission problems and air conditioning problems out the gazoo. The > problem is I can not buy a car that will run and handle any better, but > the reliability sucks big time. > My wife wants a new Toyota. Either the Tundra four door, or the SUV > built on the Camry chassis. The problem is Toyota is proud of their > vehicles. > — > ShootermanTrackpads.com! Community Forums, Gallery, more! 190,000 Military Photos, 3,000 Videos and growing! http://www.trackpads.com
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I guess we can assume you don’t have one of those Toyotas with what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ problem that is eating up engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake problem that is eating up rotors or one with the tranny failures between 40K and 50K. ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Your experience with Toyota is similar to my 17-year experience with > Chrysler (excellent after sale treatment and will do things for the customer > far beyond what one would expect). Your experience with GM is similar to my > experience with GM ("we already got your money, now go away"). It is odd > behavior for a competitive business and in my opinion is probably one of the > larger contributors to GMs long slide in losing sales to their competitors. > Many people simply won’t come back if they don’t believe that company stands > behind their product OR appreciated them having given them their business. > But, GM is huge and can hang on this way for decades, I’d bet.
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It’s your money spend it were you wish buy I hope you don’t have one of those Toyotas with what Toyota calls an oil ‘gelling’ problem that is eating up engines. Or a Toyota out of warranty with the reoccurring brake problem that is eating up rotors or one with the early tranny failure problem between 40K and 50K. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > GM market share and stock price and bond ratings are all on a downward > trend. It is a well deserved trend. GM deserves it and may it > continue. > So what is the difference between GM and Toyota based on my own > personal experience?? Toyota vehicles are not immune to problems but > it how they handle it that makes the difference. My personal > experience is this….. > I purchase a 1990 4runner. This was the first year for a 4 door > hardtop model. A radical design change from previous years. After the > warranty ran out (about 2 years after) I had a front crank bearing go > out. The dealer shop called me that afternoon to inform me of the bad > news, but the shop manager called Toyota and was instructed not to > charge me!!!!!!! but to go ahead and replace the bearing and > immediately ship it to their research center for analysis. They wanted > to see what happened. This was a $1500 repair that they absorbed. > There were two additional occurances similar to this where I did not > pay though the Toyota vehicles were beyond warranty. > I currently own a 1996 Lumina with peeling paint which is a well known > and widespread problem with vehicles from certain factories due to a > defect in the priming process. The dealer told us that something can > be done. Oh boy what a line. Found out later that to correct anything > on the car we would have to deal directly with the dealer we purchased > it from. In other words we were blown off and they assumed we would go > away. This has been a subject on the NBC news program Dateline and I > found on the web that there is also a class action lawsuit in the > works. There has also been a $500 dollar engine repair due to what the > mechanic told me was an engineering design problem associated with that > particular engine (3.1 v6). Good God! Will this ever end??!! > I have absolutely no sympathy for the eventual demise of GM and its > employees. It is a well deserved fate! GM new vehicles leave me > unexcited.
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I drive an ‘89 1500 V-6 Chevy Pickup. It has a little over 61000 miles. Had to have a short black put in it at 32000. Looks like heck, but has a 5 speed and there’s been few problems since the short block. I also have a ‘94 Chrysler Concorde. Runs like a BOOH, got 28.5 mpg this past Tuesday, and will never buy another Chrysler product. Transmission problems and air conditioning problems out the gazoo. The problem is I can not buy a car that will run and handle any better, but the reliability sucks big time. My wife wants a new Toyota. Either the Tundra four door, or the SUV built on the Camry chassis. The problem is Toyota is proud of their vehicles. — ShootermanTrackpads.com! Community Forums, Gallery, more! 190,000 Military Photos, 3,000 Videos and growing! http://www.trackpads.com
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Your experience with Toyota is similar to my 17-year experience with Chrysler (excellent after sale treatment and will do things for the customer far beyond what one would expect). Your experience with GM is similar to my experience with GM ("we already got your money, now go away"). It is odd behavior for a competitive business and in my opinion is probably one of the larger contributors to GMs long slide in losing sales to their competitors. Many people simply won’t come back if they don’t believe that company stands behind their product OR appreciated them having given them their business. But, GM is huge and can hang on this way for decades, I’d bet.
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>Your experience with Toyota is similar to my 17-year experience with >Chrysler (excellent after sale treatment and will do things for the customer >far beyond what one would expect). Your experience with GM is similar to my >experience with GM ("we already got your money, now go away"). It is odd >behavior for a competitive business and in my opinion is probably one of the >larger contributors to GMs long slide in losing sales to their competitors. >Many people simply won’t come back if they don’t believe that company stands >behind their product OR appreciated them having given them their business. >But, GM is huge and can hang on this way for decades, I’d bet.
Well if they buy enough auto companies in enough countries they can live on government handouts for generations. That’s what’s happening here in N-America and if Vauxhall (AKA GM/Opel) buys the remainder of Fiat there’ll be another group of taxpayers to help keep them alive.
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Get a life! There are two classes of pedestrians in these days of reckless motor traffic – the quick and the dead. ~ Lord Dewar 1933 ~ Climbing into a hot car is like buckling on a pistol. It is the great equalizer. ~ Henry G. Felsen 1964 ~
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GM market share and stock price and bond ratings are all on a downward trend. It is a well deserved trend. GM deserves it and may it continue. So what is the difference between GM and Toyota based on my own personal experience?? Toyota vehicles are not immune to problems but it how they handle it that makes the difference. My personal experience is this….. I purchase a 1990 4runner. This was the first year for a 4 door hardtop model. A radical design change from previous years. After the warranty ran out (about 2 years after) I had a front crank bearing go out. The dealer shop called me that afternoon to inform me of the bad news, but the shop manager called Toyota and was instructed not to charge me!!!!!!! but to go ahead and replace the bearing and immediately ship it to their research center for analysis. They wanted to see what happened. This was a $1500 repair that they absorbed. There were two additional occurances similar to this where I did not pay though the Toyota vehicles were beyond warranty. I currently own a 1996 Lumina with peeling paint which is a well known and widespread problem with vehicles from certain factories due to a defect in the priming process. The dealer told us that something can be done. Oh boy what a line. Found out later that to correct anything on the car we would have to deal directly with the dealer we purchased it from. In other words we were blown off and they assumed we would go away. This has been a subject on the NBC news program Dateline and I found on the web that there is also a class action lawsuit in the works. There has also been a $500 dollar engine repair due to what the mechanic told me was an engineering design problem associated with that particular engine (3.1 v6). Good God! Will this ever end??!! I have absolutely no sympathy for the eventual demise of GM and its employees. It is a well deserved fate! GM new vehicles leave me unexcited.
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Right on Mike.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> You are correct. When I buy a vehicle I make sure the first > number of the VIN is a ‘1,’ which means it is made in the US of > more than 70% American parts. I would not by a Jaguar from Ford > that is made in England or a Dodge Ram made in Mexico of American > parts or a Tundra or Camry that are only assembled in the US of > less than 40% American parts. > When I purchase anything I try to buy those that have a ‘Made in > USA’ label, when ever possible. I even go as far as trying to > buy things made in NY, PA, NJ or Delaware, states in which I pay > taxes. We American should be as smart as the Japanese and buy > the products of our own county from our own manufactures whenever > possible. I avoid foreign brands that assemble in the US, like > Toyota, because they take all the millions of dollars of profits > they earn in the US out of the US corporate tax free. > mike hunt > Mike you hit the nail right on its head. "products produced in America" > and > not necessarily American brand. > a lot of the American brand are not even being produced here. > > Why do you believe companies are being greedy when they choose to > > take advantage of the lower costs of complying with government > > regulations, as well as lower environmental and labor costs by > > producing some of their products in foreign countries to help > > them compete with foreign manufactures? Are consumers also not > > being greedy when they are doing the same thing more or more > > every day? If the American consumers expect their to be jobs in > > the future for their grandchildren, they better start buying more > > products produced in America > > mike hunt > > > > James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don’t want > > > > you > > > > to write them? You’re just a pain in the ass to them. > > > > I know it’s like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way > > > > I > > > > can’t wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over > > > > full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It’s not that > > > > far > > > > fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches > > > > for > > > > $1 that work OK. > > > People will buy them. It is a cycle that is going to wipe out the US. > > > American companies keep shipping work overseas to appease the > shareholder > > > quest for topping the last Quaterly results resulting in short term > penny > > > profiting and consumers with lower spending dollars will turn to > > > lower > > > priced products from communist china etc.. to make up for the drop in > > > discretionary income. You have not seen anything yet, wait till your > kids > > > grandchildren in the future grow up.
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You are correct. When I buy a vehicle I make sure the first number of the VIN is a ‘1,’ which means it is made in the US of more than 70% American parts. I would not by a Jaguar from Ford that is made in England or a Dodge Ram made in Mexico of American parts or a Tundra or Camry that are only assembled in the US of less than 40% American parts. When I purchase anything I try to buy those that have a ‘Made in USA’ label, when ever possible. I even go as far as trying to buy things made in NY, PA, NJ or Delaware, states in which I pay taxes. We American should be as smart as the Japanese and buy the products of our own county from our own manufactures whenever possible. I avoid foreign brands that assemble in the US, like Toyota, because they take all the millions of dollars of profits they earn in the US out of the US corporate tax free. mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > Mike you hit the nail right on its head. "products produced in America" and > not necessarily American brand. > a lot of the American brand are not even being produced here. > Why do you believe companies are being greedy when they choose to > take advantage of the lower costs of complying with government > regulations, as well as lower environmental and labor costs by > producing some of their products in foreign countries to help > them compete with foreign manufactures? Are consumers also not > being greedy when they are doing the same thing more or more > every day? If the American consumers expect their to be jobs in > the future for their grandchildren, they better start buying more > products produced in America > mike hunt > > > James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don’t want you > > > to write them? You’re just a pain in the ass to them. > > > I know it’s like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I > > > can’t wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over > > > full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It’s not that far > > > fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for > > > $1 that work OK. > > People will buy them. It is a cycle that is going to wipe out the US. > > American companies keep shipping work overseas to appease the > shareholder > > quest for topping the last Quaterly results resulting in short term > penny > > profiting and consumers with lower spending dollars will turn to lower > > priced products from communist china etc.. to make up for the drop in > > discretionary income. You have not seen anything yet, wait till your > kids > > grandchildren in the future grow up.
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Mike you hit the nail right on its head. "products produced in America" and not necessarily American brand. a lot of the American brand are not even being produced here.
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Why do you believe companies are being greedy when they choose to > take advantage of the lower costs of complying with government > regulations, as well as lower environmental and labor costs by > producing some of their products in foreign countries to help > them compete with foreign manufactures? Are consumers also not > being greedy when they are doing the same thing more or more > every day? If the American consumers expect their to be jobs in > the future for their grandchildren, they better start buying more > products produced in America > mike hunt > > James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don’t want you > > to write them? You’re just a pain in the ass to them. > > I know it’s like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I > > can’t wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over > > full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It’s not that far > > fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for > > $1 that work OK. > People will buy them. It is a cycle that is going to wipe out the US. > American companies keep shipping work overseas to appease the shareholder > quest for topping the last Quaterly results resulting in short term penny > profiting and consumers with lower spending dollars will turn to lower > priced products from communist china etc.. to make up for the drop in > discretionary income. You have not seen anything yet, wait till your kids > grandchildren in the future grow up.
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Why do you believe companies are being greedy when they choose to take advantage of the lower costs of complying with government regulations, as well as lower environmental and labor costs by producing some of their products in foreign countries to help them compete with foreign manufactures? Are consumers also not being greedy when they are doing the same thing more or more every day? If the American consumers expect their to be jobs in the future for their grandchildren, they better start buying more products produced in America mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don’t want you > to write them? You’re just a pain in the ass to them. > I know it’s like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I > can’t wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over > full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It’s not that far > fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for > $1 that work OK. > People will buy them. It is a cycle that is going to wipe out the US. > American companies keep shipping work overseas to appease the shareholder > quest for topping the last Quaterly results resulting in short term penny > profiting and consumers with lower spending dollars will turn to lower > priced products from communist china etc.. to make up for the drop in > discretionary income. You have not seen anything yet, wait till your kids > grandchildren in the future grow up.
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> James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don’t want you > to write them? You’re just a pain in the ass to them. > I know it’s like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I > can’t wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over > full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It’s not that far > fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for > $1 that work OK.
People will buy them. It is a cycle that is going to wipe out the US. American companies keep shipping work overseas to appease the shareholder quest for topping the last Quaterly results resulting in short term penny profiting and consumers with lower spending dollars will turn to lower priced products from communist china etc.. to make up for the drop in discretionary income. You have not seen anything yet, wait till your kids grandchildren in the future grow up.
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Except in the case of a North Central, Pa. dealer I worked for: He would screw the customers, and the manufacturers. Yes "Manufacturers" he has 7 lines, would have to get involved. He is a pompous bag of hot air whom has no respect for his employees nor his customers. Refinish King
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Few owners read the part of their warranty that says ‘GM warrant > to its dealers etc." ;) > mike hunt > > | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. > > As > US > > | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep > > opening > up > > | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its > > 300 > > | series. > > | > > | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not > help > > | anymore. > > | > > | > > I don’t know what Ford’s problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can > tell > > you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers…even on > simple > > matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as > > some > sort > > of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. > Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of > by the GM dealers. > I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer > has, > what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships. > Ted
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Few owners read the part of their warranty that says ‘GM warrant to its dealers etc." ;) mike hunt – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As > US > | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening > up > | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300 > | series. > | > | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not > help > | anymore. > | > | > I don’t know what Ford’s problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can > tell > you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers…even on > simple > matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some > sort > of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. > Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of > by the GM dealers. > I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer has, > what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships. > Ted
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Typo. :-)
| Tom Lutz is Bob Lutz brother, why would he respond? Does he work At GM? | | LOL | | Harryface | | 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE | 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey | _~_~_~296,524 miles_~_~_ | | | ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ | 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible | 78 Holiday 88 coupe | 68 LeSabre convertible | 73 Impala sedan | | | | | | |
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| | > | > | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As | US | > | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening | up | > | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300 | > | series. | > | | > | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not | help | > | anymore. | > | | > | | > | > I don’t know what Ford’s problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can | tell | > you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers…even on | simple | > matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some | sort | > of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. | | Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of | by the GM dealers. | | I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer has, | what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships. | | Ted | | Last resort. Dealer => BBB => Bob Lutz (In my case) But you’re normally right. The last issue I had at another manufacturer, the Dealer became my advocate against the manufacturer and works very successfully.
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Tom Lutz is Bob Lutz brother, why would he respond? Does he work At GM? LOL Harryface 1991 Pontiac Bonneville LE 3800 V6 ( C ), Black/Slate Grey _~_~_~296,524 miles_~_~_ ~~~The Former Fleet ~~~ 89 Cavalier Z 24 convertible 78 Holiday 88 coupe 68 LeSabre convertible 73 Impala sedan
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US > | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up > | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300 > | series. > | > | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help > | anymore. > | > | > I don’t know what Ford’s problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can tell > you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers…even on simple > matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some sort > of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. A company can’t > treat customers that way for very long before they move elsewhere. I’ve not > experienced anywhere near that same level of disregard for the customer for > other brand cars I’ve owned. I wrote two letters to Tom Lutz at GM a couple > years ago on a matter relating to this subject. And as I eventually discovered > to be typical GM culture (apparently), the letters were ignored completely. > Not even a "thanks for writing" letter back for either one. Customers won’t > put up with that sort of foolishness when they drop $20K-$40K (or more) on a > product.
James, now why would GM thank you for writing when they don’t want you to write them? You’re just a pain in the ass to them. I know it’s like cutting off my nose to spite my face, but in a way I can’t wait to see what they do when the Chinese start sending over full sized cars for $10K with a 100K mile warranty. It’s not that far fetched really when you see digital multimeters for $6 and watches for $1 that work OK.
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– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – > | Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US > | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up > | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300 > | series. > | > | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help > | anymore. > | > | > I don’t know what Ford’s problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can tell > you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers…even on simple > matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some sort > of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from.
Why are you writing GM directly? Your supposed to be taken care of by the GM dealers. I personally could care less what kind of attitude an auto manufacturer has, what matters to me is the attitude of the dealerships. Ted
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| Wow looks like The Japanese know something the US companies do not. As US | Auto manufacturers keep sending jobs to Mexico Toyota etc.. keep opening up | new plants in the US now Chrysler might be getting the hint with its 300 | series. | | What is wrong with GM and Ford? it even seems that incentives do not help | anymore. | | I don’t know what Ford’s problem is, but from 1st hand experience I can tell you that GM apparently refuses to listen to their customers…even on simple matters with extremely simple solutions. They just blow you off as some sort of annoyance instead of the place their livelihood comes from. A company can’t treat customers that way for very long before they move elsewhere. I’ve not experienced anywhere near that same level of disregard for the customer for other brand cars I’ve owned. I wrote two letters to Tom Lutz at GM a couple years ago on a matter relating to this subject. And as I eventually discovered to be typical GM culture (apparently), the letters were ignored completely. Not even a "thanks for writing" letter back for either one. Customers won’t put up with that sort of foolishness when they drop $20K-$40K (or more) on a product.
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